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re: Jay’s Moves Look Much Better Now?
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:08 am to Metaloctopus
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:08 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
What a fantastic win that was. I couldn't be more proud of the guys for fighting back, and of Coleman, Money and Hurd for their performances. The pitching decisions in the 8th, however, were just mind boggling. As soon as he took Ack out after one batter, I said "what happens if Guidry doesn't have it today". That is a lot to put on a freshman, when you didn't absolutely have to go to him that early. But then to only let him face two batters, to go to a guy who has struggled all year, had me in disbelief. Then he pinch runs in the bottom of the inning, replacing a catcher with a catcher, and the bunt that followed saw the runner get thrown out on a play where someone like Stevenson might have been safe. After all of that, the Tigers prevailed, and that's what counts. I have a lot of questions for what coach was doing in the 8th.
All of this
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Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:09 am to FreeState
The bullpen gave up 2 ER in 6 1/3. Gave up 3 hits. Struck out 8 and walked 4. Yesterday was a win for the pen.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:12 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
They have absolutely no clue what the situation was with each of these pitchers.
We know Ack has been battling a hamstring. Maybe the plan going into the game was to get him one batter regardless of situation.
Guidry is capable of getting you 2 innings, so the plan might have been for him to get the last 5 outs. He just didn’t have it last night.
Point being, we all don’t know. Assuming he left Ack in there and he reaggravates his hamstring, we’d all be asking what he’s doing. Considering what’s happened this year, him being cautious about injuries in April makes sense.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:19 am to Broski
quote:
There is no defending how the 8th was handled, Hurd pitching the best 5 outs of his life bailed us out.
When we win it’s the players when we lose it’s the coach. Also, I keep seeing he had the best outing of his life and that’s simply not true. He had outings filled with better appearances his freshman year.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:28 am to Metaloctopus
Apply for a job! They need your expert guidance to help them through these games. I also thought the pitching moves were a bit strange but they worked.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:28 am to Lutcher Lad
quote:
Guidry
Will eventually be good. Needs another year to really mature. Cooper is what he is at this point
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:32 am to VeryReauxna_ish
quote:
The bullpen gave up 2 ER in 6 1/3. Gave up 3 hits. Struck out 8 and walked 4. Yesterday was a win for the pen.
Yep.
Well, I thought it was until the experts on the Rant informed me how wrong I was.
Someone needs to tell Jay that his approach sucks.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
Yep, made me look stupid. Thought he was a moron for putting in Money/Hurd for Ack. Now, he has a series win and Ack available today. That’s why he gets paid for the job.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:42 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Nah, all these dudes here were in the dugout and know exactly what we had and why those decisions were made. These guys know baseball and understand there are no nuances at all.
They all say they were bad decisions, and of course we lost so they are right.
Fire Jay, Hire Rantards.
The fallacy in your argument is that you believe one must know with absolute certainty what result will follow a decision, in order to make a judgment on said decision. If the world worked that way, I could send 10 people walking across the interstate, blindfolded, and after several were run over, and some managed to make it across because cars swerved around them in time, I could conclude that the survivors made good decisions.
Or... I could just say, without waiting for the end result, that this is clearly not a good idea, and regardless of how exactly it plays out, the percentages say that the chances of it working out aren't good.
Because we won, you believe it was great coaching, apparently. There is nothing about that situation, based on over 40 games of this season worth of data, that suggested it was a good idea to play the lefty/righty matchup game, which was almost sure to backfire. In case you missed the point of my above analogy, yes, the possibility exists that anyone could have blown that game, if different decisions were made. We manage uncertainty in life, and in coaching or business decisions, based on reasonable expected outcomes. In other words, logic, experience, and reason. In matters outside of sports, I put faith ahead of all of those things. In sports, there are percentages you have to play. And then you live with the results.
Yes, there are nuances. Such as "why is so and so closing, and not this other guy?". Because not everyone is mentally adequate to handle that situation. Coach, in my opinion, over-managed by playing the matchups, instead of trusting his better relievers. You know... Nuance. He only lets Ack pitch to one batter, goes for the matchup with Guidry, let's him face two batters, yanks him for a matchup with a guy who's not getting outs from lefties or righties with any consistency, and he walks a guy. Now we're holding on with Thatcher Hurd, not knowing which Thatcher we're going to get. Fortunately, we got the good Thatcher.
I trust his decisions most of the time, but sometimes a coach can overthink it, and I don't owe it to anyone to pretend otherwise. Some people give coaches way too much credit. They're human beings just like the rest of us. We all have something we're good at, that we still manage to mess up on sometimes.
This post was edited on 4/30/23 at 9:44 am
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:46 am to TDTiger225
quote:
It worked out well, that was not done by intention
WTF do you guys come from? It worked out well and it absoluty was intentional. Did it go exactly according to his plan? No. Did every move he make work out exactly as he intended? Obviously not
Then you are agreeing with me?????
Not going to plan = not done intentionally.
Or do you think JJ didn't want to have Guidry record an out and Cooper do the same? I'm not following this logic if there is one.
JJ had every intention of Guidry finishing the last 5 outs, it did not go to plan that means it wasn't intended or intentional.
Yes it worked out which is what I said, but it was not the plan intended.
It worked out well, that was not done by intention
WTF do you guys come from? It worked out well and it absoluty was intentional. Did it go exactly according to his plan? No. Did every move he make work out exactly as he intended? Obviously not
Then you are agreeing with me?????
Not going to plan = not done intentionally.
Or do you think JJ didn't want to have Guidry record an out and Cooper do the same? I'm not following this logic if there is one.
JJ had every intention of Guidry finishing the last 5 outs, it did not go to plan that means it wasn't intended or intentional.
Yes it worked out which is what I said, but it was not the plan intended.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:52 am to WhiteMandingo
quote:
Then you are agreeing with me?????
Not going to plan = not done intentionally.
Or do you think JJ didn't want to have Guidry record an out and Cooper do the same? I'm not following this logic if there is one.
JJ had every intention of Guidry finishing the last 5 outs, it did not go to plan that means it wasn't intended or intentional.
Yes it worked out which is what I said, but it was not the plan intended.
This is the precisely the logical black hole that people are arguing from. Trying to say that he made the right decision, because the first two didn't get it done, but the last one did. Well if Jay knew that Hurd would get it done, why wasn't he warmed and ready to be the first guy in after he took Ack out?
If Thatcher was the 4th pitcher to enter in the inning, what does that say about Jay's plan? He clearly didn't plan on that sequence of events, but instead of saying "good job, Hurd", they're saying it was a great coaching decision. Well how many options did he have left? It's like trying to reason with walls around here, sometimes.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:55 am to TDTiger225
quote:
WOT
I know reading and critical thinking is hard. That's why you can only respond with a meme. Thanks for stopping by.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:30 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
This is the precisely the logical black hole that people are arguing from. Trying to say that he made the right decision, because the first two didn't get it done, but the last one did. Well if Jay knew that Hurd would get it done, why wasn't he warmed and ready to be the first guy in after he took Ack out?
Sounds like people have made up their minds with no evidence to support it based on their own personal biases.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:38 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Sounds like people have made up their minds with no evidence to support it based on their own personal biases.
No evidence to support what? That his first two decisions didn't work, and that there was ample reason to suspect that Cooper, in particular, would not be the best option there? What evidence is missing? You're still arguing from the same faulty position. You want to say that we're wrong because we don't know what would have happened if different decisions were made. I've already addressed this point with you. Not all good decisions lead to good results, and not all bad decisions lead to bad results. Pulling your best reliever after one batter, and then the second best available reliever after 2 batters, to go with a guy who's getting knocked around all year, is not sound decision making. It took a third pitching change, for something to finally work.
The "evidence" of who should be closing that game out, is in the numbers. I'm not sure what else you think you need.
This post was edited on 4/30/23 at 10:41 am
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:42 am to Broski
quote:
There is no defending how the 8th was handled
Yes Jay is lucky he has dudes on this team because I hated how he handled the 8th regardless of the outcome. He over managed.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:54 am to mdtiger1
quote:
Apply for a job! They need your expert guidance to help them through these games. I also thought the pitching moves were a bit strange but they worked.
That's right, go straight for the old reliable "you should coach the team, then" rhetoric.
You just said YOU thought the moves were strange. How dare you? Have you no faith in our coach? Why do you think it seemed strange to you? Think about that, and then ask yourself why you felt the need to come at me with your sarcasm.
But what do you mean they worked? ALL of them? The first "strange" move didn't work. The second "strange" move didn't work. The third one did, after a run had already crossed.
Why would you pull the best option you have after one batter, and put yourself in a position such as we found ourselves in?
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:56 am to FreeState
Winning cures everything but over time the wrong decisions catch up to you.
Maybe he knows something about the pitchers he chose that we didn’t. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt there.
Putting Milazzo in to run for Travinski can’t be explained at all.
That being said, nobody is perfect and Jay is doing a damn good job. I don’t know that there is any other coach that would have us in a better situation for this year and going forward.
Maybe he knows something about the pitchers he chose that we didn’t. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt there.
Putting Milazzo in to run for Travinski can’t be explained at all.
That being said, nobody is perfect and Jay is doing a damn good job. I don’t know that there is any other coach that would have us in a better situation for this year and going forward.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 11:08 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
That's right, go straight for the old reliable "you should coach the team, then" rhetoric.
What was the situation with ready arms, innings and how does that fit in today?
Thanks.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 11:11 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Maybe he knows something about the pitchers he chose that we didn’t.
Viola. I think you've found it.
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