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IOld thread...admin, please anchor or delete
Posted on 9/27/09 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 9/27/09 at 8:52 pm
Offense is the problem - output wise, yes. The O-Line, play-calling, and running game have been lackluster to say the least.
I was looking, for the first time this season, at the defense in-depth. I do not like at all what I see and I don't care that Chavis has improved this unit from a year ago and that's like improving the show Home Improvement with a permanent ban on reruns.
I am not a Johnny-Come-Lately, nor a fair-weathered fan. Most of you who have been here for a while should know that. I have watched LSU as intently as many of you and I am going to give you my honest take.
We're in trouble.
I recall the Michael Brooks, Eric Hills, and Bradie James types at LB. I recall the Greg Jacksons, Chris Carriers, Tory Jameses, Mark Romans (no, he shouldn't belong with these others, but talent-wise he does), and the LaRon Landrys of the DB's...all of these players were headhunting playmakers with NFL written all over them. I don't need to mention the D-Line, as the last 5 years alone have produced an assembly line of Sunday players - many of whom I saw on Fox and CBS today.
Aside from Patrick Peterson and Rahim Alem, and maybe the athetic (but far from dominating) Chad Jones, give me a playmaker...go ahead. Ron Brooks and Ryan Baker lovers - sorry, but no...not when they're playing 9 minutes a game.
This is the most subpar looking group as far as playmakers since the '98-'99 seasons when we had Thomas Dunson, Jamal Hill, and Charles Smith manning the LB positions and when Johhny Mitchell and Jarvis Green were our best down linemen. We saw that group give up 30 plus to Uk, over 40 to a 4 win Auburn team, and what seems like 60 and 450 yards rushing to Ole Miss. Coaching was certainly a factor then, buut that was a small repeat of the dark ages. This day in 2009 should not be.
My point is that this group may improve, but right now, we are very much seeing what we haven't seen since Saban's arrival in 2000. This group is not out there for blood. Sure, Harry Coleman can light an arse up, but is he the answer?
This is not "nega-tigering" (and I hate that word). This is a spade's a spade. The offense has had kinks, but ultimately, talented and fast SEC teams are going to run and throw all over us.
I was looking, for the first time this season, at the defense in-depth. I do not like at all what I see and I don't care that Chavis has improved this unit from a year ago and that's like improving the show Home Improvement with a permanent ban on reruns.
I am not a Johnny-Come-Lately, nor a fair-weathered fan. Most of you who have been here for a while should know that. I have watched LSU as intently as many of you and I am going to give you my honest take.
We're in trouble.
I recall the Michael Brooks, Eric Hills, and Bradie James types at LB. I recall the Greg Jacksons, Chris Carriers, Tory Jameses, Mark Romans (no, he shouldn't belong with these others, but talent-wise he does), and the LaRon Landrys of the DB's...all of these players were headhunting playmakers with NFL written all over them. I don't need to mention the D-Line, as the last 5 years alone have produced an assembly line of Sunday players - many of whom I saw on Fox and CBS today.
Aside from Patrick Peterson and Rahim Alem, and maybe the athetic (but far from dominating) Chad Jones, give me a playmaker...go ahead. Ron Brooks and Ryan Baker lovers - sorry, but no...not when they're playing 9 minutes a game.
This is the most subpar looking group as far as playmakers since the '98-'99 seasons when we had Thomas Dunson, Jamal Hill, and Charles Smith manning the LB positions and when Johhny Mitchell and Jarvis Green were our best down linemen. We saw that group give up 30 plus to Uk, over 40 to a 4 win Auburn team, and what seems like 60 and 450 yards rushing to Ole Miss. Coaching was certainly a factor then, buut that was a small repeat of the dark ages. This day in 2009 should not be.
My point is that this group may improve, but right now, we are very much seeing what we haven't seen since Saban's arrival in 2000. This group is not out there for blood. Sure, Harry Coleman can light an arse up, but is he the answer?
This is not "nega-tigering" (and I hate that word). This is a spade's a spade. The offense has had kinks, but ultimately, talented and fast SEC teams are going to run and throw all over us.
This post was edited on 3/26/10 at 2:14 pm
14
Posted on 9/27/09 at 8:56 pm to PiscesTiger
Despite Ms. State outgaining LSU yesterday, I think the defense played a good game and showed improvement. The defense began to wear down in the 4th quarter because Ms. State ran 83 or 84 plays to LSU's 50 or so. So, in essence, the LSU defense has had at least two games in the first four (Washington being the other) where it has had to essentially play a game and a half in terms of number of snaps on the field. Knowing that, the goal line stand by LSU is made all the more remarkable, and especially the play of Chad Jones in the 4th quarter. Jones and the rest of the D had to be gassed but found a way to suck it up and make the critical deciding plays of the game. Kudos to the players and defensive coaches.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 8:57 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
We're in trouble.
Welcome to three weeks ago, boss.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 8:58 pm to genuineLSUtiger
Great take-home prizes, but answer the question, please. Are you depending on this group to shut down UGA, UF, AU, Bama, Ole Miss, and Arkansas?
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:00 pm to genuineLSUtiger
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:01 pm to PiscesTiger
I think you're right on the basic point -- this is not a great defense. I do think there are playmakers, particularly in the secondary and you are selling Coleman a bit short. I think there is a middle ground between great and terrible, and I know you know that and weren't trying to saying there isn't.
But I am disturbed by how many of our linemen can get in the backfield and then fail to make a play. We lead the SEC in almost tackles. It's frustrating as hell to watch.
But the 2003 defense was historically great. Not the best unit in LSU history, but arguably among the greatest defenses in NCAA history. Seriously, they were that good. It's no insult to say a defense is not as good as 2003.
The defense needs to get its attitude back and go out and kill people. On this, I agree. Hopefully, the goalline stand is a building block, but the key here is we need to build. We need to stop almost making plays and actually make them.
And no one is Michael Brooks.
But I am disturbed by how many of our linemen can get in the backfield and then fail to make a play. We lead the SEC in almost tackles. It's frustrating as hell to watch.
But the 2003 defense was historically great. Not the best unit in LSU history, but arguably among the greatest defenses in NCAA history. Seriously, they were that good. It's no insult to say a defense is not as good as 2003.
The defense needs to get its attitude back and go out and kill people. On this, I agree. Hopefully, the goalline stand is a building block, but the key here is we need to build. We need to stop almost making plays and actually make them.
And no one is Michael Brooks.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:06 pm to PiscesTiger
It seems we haven't recruited anyone at linebacker better than a 3-star for years. I remember when everyone questioned the two from Stone Mt Georgia even getting offers. Now they are the starters. While they've earned their time to be there, I haven't seen the development of others who emerged.
I do like that Coleman is playing LB only cuz he's a superior athlete to the others and that is what we need there right now. Losten needs to see maximum playing time ASAP and even if he makes some errors, what he brings from punch will more than make up for the other. He is a pure stud and his aggresiveness will spread to many others.
Play all of the new recruits at DT and DE. No redshirts from what we believe are blue-chips. We can ill afford the time for them to develop on the "re-load" plan... I'm seeing the line as tired too quickly and we need fresh legs throughout. If we can hit hard up front, the others may start to look a lot better.
At least we aren't missing tackles like the hapless group we saw in Seattle.
I do like that Coleman is playing LB only cuz he's a superior athlete to the others and that is what we need there right now. Losten needs to see maximum playing time ASAP and even if he makes some errors, what he brings from punch will more than make up for the other. He is a pure stud and his aggresiveness will spread to many others.
Play all of the new recruits at DT and DE. No redshirts from what we believe are blue-chips. We can ill afford the time for them to develop on the "re-load" plan... I'm seeing the line as tired too quickly and we need fresh legs throughout. If we can hit hard up front, the others may start to look a lot better.
At least we aren't missing tackles like the hapless group we saw in Seattle.
This post was edited on 9/27/09 at 9:14 pm
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:07 pm to Baloo
Points taken and I realize Michael Brooks might be the greatest LBin NCAA history before the UF game that tore his knee up, but this group is full of average athletes.
I don't see this group "winning a game" like UF. Defense wins c'ships...offenses often can, too. Pick your poison here, though. What scenario of the two is more reasonable for us to win games?
I don't see this group "winning a game" like UF. Defense wins c'ships...offenses often can, too. Pick your poison here, though. What scenario of the two is more reasonable for us to win games?
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:08 pm to Woodman
quote:
Losten
Is doing a fine impersonation of those ghosts from Pac Man. Where is he? Not his fault. But where is he? He can't play over McCray, Hatcher, etc.?
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:11 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
spade's a spade
Racist
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:12 pm to PiscesTiger
Well, the defense did just win us a game, but I see your point. And I do agree with the basic premise.
I think the defense needs to actually start making those tackles instead of being in a position to make them. I'm worried, too.
I think the defense needs to actually start making those tackles instead of being in a position to make them. I'm worried, too.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:13 pm to Woodman
quote:
It seems we haven't recruited anyone better than a 3-star for years.
Are you drinking or just stupid? Please look at the recruiting classes before you make a post like this!!
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:13 pm to PiscesTiger
You know what? When I started watching LSU football about when Tricky Nicky and when Rohan Davey telling the defense, just stop them and we can handle it from there time.
This was a lot of fun. But for the past couple of years, this has gotten to be almost a pain in the butt. That's what is wrong with everybody. Ain't nobody enjoying the single great plays. The plays that give you ammuntion to talk smack. All anybody wants to talk about anymore is who should be doing what they aren't doing.
Who Cares. We beat piss poor MSU. That is one thing my son has never seen, MSU beat LSU. My oldest can't remember when they did. So you know what I am going to do, sport my LSU gear win lose or draw.
I like my Tigers just the way they are.
This was a lot of fun. But for the past couple of years, this has gotten to be almost a pain in the butt. That's what is wrong with everybody. Ain't nobody enjoying the single great plays. The plays that give you ammuntion to talk smack. All anybody wants to talk about anymore is who should be doing what they aren't doing.
Who Cares. We beat piss poor MSU. That is one thing my son has never seen, MSU beat LSU. My oldest can't remember when they did. So you know what I am going to do, sport my LSU gear win lose or draw.
I like my Tigers just the way they are.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:22 pm to PiscesTiger
You're right...getting four turnovers and a goal line stand hardly contributed to the win on Saturday.
No, the defense isn't perfect. Yes, the secondary made young mistakes on Saturday by playing too aggressive, but the college game has changed.
Sorry this isn't original, but offenses like those of Florida, now Mississippi State, and others that have gone to the spread are ahead of the defenses.
I saw this defense last year like everyone else, and you are selling this year's squad way short. No, they don't remind me of the great Tiger defenses of the past, but D's under a first-year coordinator after being brought to the seventh level of Hell rarely do.
As long as our offense doesn't keep the defense on the field with multiple three-and-outs, Charles Scott losing fumbles, and other turnovers, I think the defense will continue to improve.
Mississppi State's score with six minutes to go in the third quarter was the result of a missed sack. This group is still learning how to play aggressive successfully. Do I think they are going to shutout Georgia and Florida? Absolutely not. But I also know that without key defensive plays and stops against Washington and against the Bulldogs, we would easily be 2-2.
No, the defense isn't perfect. Yes, the secondary made young mistakes on Saturday by playing too aggressive, but the college game has changed.
Sorry this isn't original, but offenses like those of Florida, now Mississippi State, and others that have gone to the spread are ahead of the defenses.
I saw this defense last year like everyone else, and you are selling this year's squad way short. No, they don't remind me of the great Tiger defenses of the past, but D's under a first-year coordinator after being brought to the seventh level of Hell rarely do.
As long as our offense doesn't keep the defense on the field with multiple three-and-outs, Charles Scott losing fumbles, and other turnovers, I think the defense will continue to improve.
Mississppi State's score with six minutes to go in the third quarter was the result of a missed sack. This group is still learning how to play aggressive successfully. Do I think they are going to shutout Georgia and Florida? Absolutely not. But I also know that without key defensive plays and stops against Washington and against the Bulldogs, we would easily be 2-2.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:23 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
I don't see this group "winning a game" like UF. Defense wins c'ships...offenses often can, too. Pick your poison here, though. What scenario of the two is more reasonable for us to win games?
Good post and I couldn't agree more about the seemingly average play from the lb's but it also seems any time we get agressive we get burned on under or wheel routes. The missed tackles are infurianting but I watched alot of 'sunday players' doing the same stupid stuff today. The kids on offense today are lightning quick with now you see me...now you don't moves. The offense has got to do a much better job of sustaining drives and limiting the freakin' three and outs and JJ has got to learn how to read the play clock. We are a very young team at qb and the interior oline and most of our issues start right there.
This post was edited on 9/27/09 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:23 pm to PiscesTiger
and I don't think any of you see me making "Fire Les Miles" threads and freaking out all the time, but I am here to tell you that our top 5 ranking is meaningless. It is encouraging that outside of UF, UT, and Bama that there's no clear-cut #4-???. But we aren't the 4th best team. Not by a long shot.
As for the physical concerns on D, I miss the Nicky Hazards and Trev Faulks that just went balls to the wall and knew their assignments. Nicky was far from an athlete and may not be suited for today's spread out game, but the dude was rarely out of place and he made plays. Perry Riley...it's time to put up. Kelvin Sheppard...time to play like you look when you get off the bus.
As for the physical concerns on D, I miss the Nicky Hazards and Trev Faulks that just went balls to the wall and knew their assignments. Nicky was far from an athlete and may not be suited for today's spread out game, but the dude was rarely out of place and he made plays. Perry Riley...it's time to put up. Kelvin Sheppard...time to play like you look when you get off the bus.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:27 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
PiscesTiger
Do you take into account the fact that we aren't going up against drop-back only passers as much as we used to? I'm asking that because that generation of QBs starting to become dead and gone. It seems as if every QB we face these days have some sort of scrambling ability.
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:28 pm to Michael T. Tiger
quote:
Michael T. Tiger
Great...a goalline defense won the game against State. Let that be the point that pooh-poohs anything I have said.
4 turnovers against a very average/sterile State qb who, had he picthed on 4th down, would make the RANT locked up.
No, the defense isn't perfect...
quote:
and you are selling this year's squad way short. No, they don't remind me of the great Tiger defenses of the past, but D's under a first-year coordinator after being brought to the seventh level of Hell rarely do.
Selling short what? Facts. You think this D can help us to a 10-2 record? Are we watching the same game...team...network...do we have the same vision of planet earth?
quote:
This group is still learning how to play aggressive successfully
Still? How much time do they get and do they just all of a sudden learn to be headhunting stoppers? Are they all of a sudden going to dominate from here on out? Again, I am asking because I don't see it.
Great effort yesterday. Against State. Let's get real, shall we?
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:31 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
We're in trouble.
NO shite!!!
Posted on 9/27/09 at 9:32 pm to c on z
quote:
Do you take into account the fact that we aren't going up against drop-back only passers as much as we used to?
Yes I am fully aware. Do you remember the non-traditional types of qbs like Sleepy Robinson who gave us fits. Also, Snead, Mallet, Cox, etc. are "drop back" passers. The game isn't 100 percent different from the 80's and 90's.
Again, the point is that this D looks out of place, often bewildered, and totally average. The defensive line - 5 star Al Woods in particular - are doing what to take the pressure off of our average LB's and db's?
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