re: Interesting article on NCAA Refs

That is well stated

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Let me start by saying I don't believe that refs are actively/consciously working against any team

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Have you not seen the gif on TD's that shows the ref marking the ball for bama and then looking behind to see where the 1st down marker is and then moving over to spot the ball?

Explain to me how that isn't blatant cheating.

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Have you not seen the gif on TD's that shows the ref marking the ball for bama and then looking behind to see where the 1st down marker is and then moving over to spot the ball?

Explain to me how that isn't blatant cheating.

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Yea i have.

Read this article and the explanation from the SEC.

I'm not saying you have to believe it. You asked me to explain so here is an article that explains it.

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Lsu has also had beneficial calls from the refs. In the 2009 Georgia vs LSU game AJ Green got called for excessive celebration penalty which put us in great field position to score the winning touchdown.

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That was just a product of bad officiating. Right before that Charles Scott was called for the same bullshite penalty if I recall.

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I have literally never seen a ref do this when spotting the ball in my 30 plus years of watching football closely.

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This was kind of my point about only looking at it through a small subset of games (your view for 30 years). That may seem like a lot of football to you, but compared to the overall games which are played it's not as big of a sample size you may think.

Again talking about bias vs consciously sabotaging a team here. You can see in this article NFL refs have biased ball placement that these biases aren't for or against a specific team, but a kind of "default spot", if you will.

Whether those spots are being done to intentionally hurt your team or the opposing team is entirely up for you to decide; however my point was that it doesn't only work for Bama and Aubrun. It can benefit any/most teams at some point and has. I think we've discussed enough of these calls with various teams in the SEC to establish that Bama is not the only team with favorable calls. Perhaps they are getting more favorable calls now, and florida got more when Meyer was there. I truly don't know. I asked if anyone had any data to have a discussion on this, but no one ever provided any links.

Anyway, my point was that you said you have never seen this happen, which is likely true; however it doesn't mean it never happens. That's why i brought up the fact that you watch LSU, probably, more than any other team which could lead you to think it is disproportionately against LSU, when that does not appear to be the case.

Eta: After the OSU vs Michigan game spotting issue, i really liked this idea to help solve some of these spotting isuues:

How to use technology to correct these ball spotting issues.

No bias because we are talking about once versus a consistent pattern of one team getting favorable calls at the most critical times on a regular basis against teams with the ability to beat that team. I think it stems from the SEC offices and I thinks it's rooted in the fact that majority of employees in that office are from the state of that team and or graduated from that school. I also think that getting this team into the most prominent position nationally because of economics also plays a part. Now you can dispute this all you want but you can't prove this theory wrong.

Crickets!

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No bias because we are talking about once versus a consistent pattern of one team getting favorable calls at the most critical times on a regular basis against teams with the ability to beat that team.

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That was one example there others. Just this year the holds against ole miss when fournette scored.

I could spend time going back and compiling all this data, but 1) it wouldn't make any difference to you your mind is already made up. And 2) i don't get paid to do that shite. that's what i was asking if anyone had that type of info so we could discuss it. I don't think that's been compiled unfortunately.

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Now you can dispute this all you want but you can't prove this theory wrong.

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No i can't, not anymore than anyone on this board can prove it right.

Maybe my post was misinterpreted or maybe people didn't read the article. I said i personally did not believe it is all rigged in Bama's...that's my opinion on the matter. I also cited an article discussing how refs DO have bias, but this isn't something that's a central SEC/BAMA problem. The bias seems to occur when the team is perceived to be the "better team". That's what the trends in the study showed. This wasn't something central to the SEC either. These types of situations occurred across all P5 conferences.

Why does the bias occur throughout all P5 conferences with various teams? That's where you can't really prove anything is going on or not. Could it be? Sure, but it's not a sec/bama only problem. The researcher asserts that the bias tends to favor top tier teams, but not specific teams. We just don't know if the correlation between this data actually represent causation.

You csn believe it's a conspiracy that the SEC has their refs actively/consciously cheat for Bama and Auburn (this seems to be what a large majority believe.)

You could think that the bias is not intentional and realize refs are people not robots and can have an unconscious biases like the rest of us. (This is what i choose to believe until i read any study on the matter telling me otherwise)

...or something completely different.

I really encourage you to read the article. I tend to agree with most of it and especially the conclusion. The conclusion (from what i understood) is that the refs should be an independent group not having to answer to their conferences. Even if there is not an incestual type relationship going on between the refs and the conference leaders, it just looks really bad and raises questions. It makes more sense to have them as an independent body, but the conferences (not just sec) aren't wanting this to happen.

I hope that clears up the message i was initially trying to convey. It was part opinion and part fact (from the article).

[quote]Tiger Tracker
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I'm not exactly sure what the point is that you're trying to convey.


Anyone with eyeballs can see that there are always, always uncalled plays that benefit Alabama. It happens every damn year.


I partially agree that it isn't the entire game but there's always some call that goes their way. It never fails. You can put money on it, it happens so regularly.

And it's not just against LSU. It's against any team that gives them even partially a fight.


As stated numerous times in this thread, the 3 holding calls from Alabama on our defensive guys that opened a clear lane for Hurts to the EZ. Not one hold but 3! You have 100,000+ in the stadium looking at it, not to mention however many watching on TV yet none of the 6 officials see it.

Want another example? Patrick Peterson picking the ball in '09. Both feet in bounds, clearly has control of the ball and the refs say it's an incomplete pass.



I thought the whole part of catching a pass was to control the ball. He did, yet it was called incomplete. Even after a review.


There's no explanation for that. I get that human error will occur on the field but after it's reviewed over and over and over..... come on.

There's always a constant in the "controversial" calls. That would be that Alabama is always the opposing team.

Yes, Alabama is a great team, as much as I hate to give them kudos but they are. So if they're so great, why do they need this "help" from the officials?

If you think about it, it makes sense.

The PP thing. The LSU DT getting an unsportsmanlike conduct flag when the Alabama guy is pulling his leg backwards in 2014, after the whistle had been blown. This is just what I can think of off the top of my head. There are countless other instances.

Who's the instigator there?

A helmet to helmet shot on Etling this year that wasn't even reviewed. Thought it was all about player safety now?

They are good. They are very good but no team is that lucky.

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it was spotted where it should have been spotted, but the actual "spotting mechanic" was poor.

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The referee's crews are expected to know the ins and outs of the game. Moreover, if they should miss a call, those reviewing the plays are expected to call it fairly, since many are former officials.



I expect there to be few errors when the game is underway. Human error happens, I understand that. But after reviews when it's blatantly obvious that the call is incorrect and upheld, that's wrong.



Just my opinion.