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Message
re: If USC & Oklahoma go undefeated, are we this year's Auburn?
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:03 pm to Tiger Phil
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:03 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:So you think teams should be rewarded for playing easier schedules by getting into the National Championship Game ahead of teams with identical records who faced a harder schedule?
For the sake of college football in general, if that situation plays out, LSU SHOULD be left out.
1
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:09 pm to lsumatt
quote:For that exact reason, I contend that it has far less weight.
I still contend (unlike most people) that as a national champion the AP holds more weight than it did in 2003. Back then, they were a "part" of the BCS champion.
Today, they simply declare their own champion and having nothing to do with the BCS.
There is a system for a National Championship to which the AP is completely irrelevant. Every team begins the season aspiring to play in the BCS Championship Game to win the National Championship, a goal to which the AP is completely irrelevant.
By removing themselves from the process entirely they have placed themselves among Berryman, Sporting News, Matthews, Billingsly, and the rest of the irrelevant booby-prize polls.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:15 pm to igoringa
quote:
I cant see us going undefeated either.
we haven't gone undefeated since 1958, so I don't think a year with QB's that have never played and schedule with the preseason #1 at home and 2 preseaon top #15 teams on the road is not a good candidate to end that streak.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:18 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:That is absurd. What about the teams that the champion beat in it's conference "tournament" that beat the hell out of other teams? If Bama crushes Clemson, Georgia beats Ga. Tech, Florida beats Miami and FSU, Auburn beats West Virginia, and we beat all of them in conference play, none of those games matter? That's just dumb.
The only valid means of comparison is to see who those tournament champions have defeated outside of their own tournament.
quote:Only by those attempting complete disingenuity to penalize LSU. It is simply implausible to contend that a 9 game conference schedule is irrelevant to a comparison between teams. If that were the case and games against SEC competition could not be compared to games against Big XII competition, then how could OOC games against Pac 10 and Big East competition be compared to OOC games against C-USA and Sun Belt competition? If they can recognize that the Pac 10 and Big East opponents are superior without direct competition, then why would they not be able to recognize that the SEC opponents were tougher than the Big XII opponents?
Therefore, no matter how "good" the teams that an SEC Champ defeats in conference, if they haven't defeated any one out of conference, they will be ranked lower in comparison.
This is the epitome of bullshite OOC argument; any ridiculous excuse to discount the 75% of a schedule that is conference play in order to favor those teams who play in shitty conferences and schedule 1 or 2 decent OOC games to dress up their weak schedule.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:19 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:Our SOS will be considerably stronger than OU's.
It's the exact opposite. SOS will keep us out!
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:20 pm to King Joey
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the sake of college football in general, if that situation plays out, LSU SHOULD be left out.
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So you think teams should be rewarded for playing easier schedules by getting into the National Championship Game ahead of teams with identical records who faced a harder schedule?
I think we all need to lose the myopathy regarding the strength of the SEC.
What happens ig UGa loses to ASU and Florida loses to FSU? Meanwhile, Auburn struggles with WV, who wind up losing 4 games and finish 3rd in the Big East and Alabama gets spanked by Clemson? Then even if LSU finishes undefeated, they will be second behind OU, OSU or USC - any one of the three if they finish undefeated. If two of them are, then we will be left out.
Again, winning the SEC is not a pass to the NCG, despite what those on this board would suggest.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:27 pm to BuckeyeFan87
quote:How is, "the Big Ten is weaker," refuted by, "that doesn't mean we can't compete?"
Top to bottom, the SEC is definitely stronger than the Big10, but that doesn't mean we can't compete.
I always wonder at the responses from other conferences to SEC fans claims of superiority.
We say, "your conference is weaker than the SEC."
They say, "bullshite! We know the SEC is stronger, but that doesn't mean we're all horrible!"
Why don't they ever seem capable of grasping (or accepting) that being referred to as weaker than the strongest conference just means simply that: they are weaker than the strongest conference. Why must they always pretend it means that they all suck horribly at football and are worse than Pop Warner teams?
Other conference fans, do me a small favor: pretend you are an SEC fan, and are rooting for the strongest conference in the land. How exactly would you then describe the relative strength of your conference (the SEC) and other conferences (like the Big Ten, Pac 10, etc.)? And how, exactly, would you respond to people who suggest that your conference (the SEC) was not in fact tougher than their own conference?
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:28 pm to Tiger Phil
Wow. I can't believe that this is even up for that much debate. An undefeated SEC team gets in. Period.
If there are two undefeated BCS teams and LSU has one loss, they'll play in the Sugar Bowl. There's no way that ANY one loss team will leapfrog an undefeated USC, OSU, Oklahoma, etc. for a spot in the NC game.
No matter how much "media love" Oklahoma gets, if all things are even between USC, LSU and Oklahoma, then Oklahoma will be on the outside looking in.
If there are two undefeated BCS teams and LSU has one loss, they'll play in the Sugar Bowl. There's no way that ANY one loss team will leapfrog an undefeated USC, OSU, Oklahoma, etc. for a spot in the NC game.
No matter how much "media love" Oklahoma gets, if all things are even between USC, LSU and Oklahoma, then Oklahoma will be on the outside looking in.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:30 pm to Darts
quote:No, I think he just has the brains (obviously lacked by some) to recognize that the OOC schedule -- being 1/3 to 1/4 of the schedule -- will not be the be all and end all definer of SOS. It will be a part . . . roughly 1/3 to 1/4.
So you think the OOC will not affect their strenght of schedule
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:35 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:Actually, no he's not. He is saying that no other factor matters except the strenght of the OOC schedule. Apparently, Darts is convinced that an 0-12 Ohio State team would get in ahead of an undefeated LSU team because they play SC out of conference, and that is all that matters. Frankly, for this I consider him laughably ignorant.
He is arguing thatOOC games should count more than con games
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:36 pm to SprintFun
quote::kige:
If OSU, SEC Champ, and OU or WVU or anybody else is undefeated, its OSU V SEC Champ I firmly believe.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:39 pm to Rockerbraves
quote:I don't think so. If OU is undefeated at season's end, I don't think anybody but an undefeated SEC Champ and the undefeated SC/OSU winner would keep them out of the Championship Game. That's based largely on the power of preseason rankings and how much further back all the other Big Ten teams are, but that's my opinion.
Should any other Big 10 team go undefeated would they get the nod if they knocked off a #1 ranked Buckeye team???
Posted on 8/1/08 at 4:47 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:This isn't about your hopes, this is about the speculations based on the polls. You suggested that OU -- with a weaker schedule than LSU -- should be chosen rather than LSU because a particular 25% of our schedule is weaker than a particular 25% of theirs. I think that is absolutely stupid and the work of disingenuous jackasses who want to make excuses for teams in weak conferences.
What happens ig
What if Tulane plays a BCS team OOC and goes undefeated? Would they be more deserving than LSU, too, since they played a "tougher" OOC schedule?
Pull your head out of your arse and recognize what the whole freaking world already knows: the SEC is the toughest conference in the country. That means that it is the toughest collection of teams in the country. THAT means that a schedule of 9 SEC opponents is almost certain to be tougher than a schedule of 9 opponents from any other conference. And to suggest that Cincinnatti, Washington, TCU and UT-Chatanooga are such a murderer's row of juggernauts that those four games alone automatically overcome the differential from the other 9 games on the schedule is just laughable.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 6:09 pm to King Joey
quote:
How is, "the Big Ten is weaker," refuted by, "that doesn't mean we can't compete?"
I always wonder at the responses from other conferences to SEC fans claims of superiority.
We say, "your conference is weaker than the SEC."
They say, "bullshite! We know the SEC is stronger, but that doesn't mean we're all horrible!"
Why don't they ever seem capable of grasping (or accepting) that being referred to as weaker than the strongest conference just means simply that: they are weaker than the strongest conference. Why must they always pretend it means that they all suck horribly at football and are worse than Pop Warner teams?
Other conference fans, do me a small favor: pretend you are an SEC fan, and are rooting for the strongest conference in the land. How exactly would you then describe the relative strength of your conference (the SEC) and other conferences (like the Big Ten, Pac 10, etc.)? And how, exactly, would you respond to people who suggest that your conference (the SEC) was not in fact tougher than their own conference?
He was responding to the idiot who said OSU has only one tough game the entire year.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 6:28 pm to King Joey
I think we will have another 2 loss champion this year. 
If USC and OSU weren't playing each other, then it might not have happend... but thanks to that game, this will be another 2 loss team vs 2 loss team year. With the SEC champ winning again, unless said SEC champ has 3 losses, which is highly unlikely.
If USC and OSU weren't playing each other, then it might not have happend... but thanks to that game, this will be another 2 loss team vs 2 loss team year. With the SEC champ winning again, unless said SEC champ has 3 losses, which is highly unlikely.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 6:29 pm to Archie Bengal Bunker
quote:
I think we will have another 2 loss champion this year.
If USC and OSU weren't playing each other, then it might not have happend... but thanks to that game, this will be another 2 loss team vs 2 loss team year.
I really doubt it.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 6:46 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
This is a fallacy. Think of each conference's games as a tournament that produces a champion. Then, the BCS's main responsibility is to identify the two best tournament champions. The only valid means of comparison is to see who those tournament champions have defeated outside of their own tournament. Therefore, no matter how "good" the teams that an SEC Champ defeats in conference, if they haven't defeated any one out of conference, they will be ranked lower in comparison.
Whoa. I guess no one else read this post, because it is ALL kinds of stupid.
Are you seriously saying that you think conference play is irrelevant other than determining a champion of that conference? That comparing the strength of the conferences that two teams play in isn't an extremely important part of determining which of those two teams is better?
How would comparing non-conference games be any more "valid" than comparing conference games? Unless the two teams being compared played the same OOC teams, you're still comparing two teams by different standards.
How does a Florida game against Florida State tell you any more about how good the Gators are than a Florida game against Georgia or LSU?
How does Oklahoma playing Washington tell you any more about who is better between Florida and Oklahoma than Oklahoma's game against Texas?
Seriously, explain this to me, because I have no idea what you are saying.
Sure you have to factor in OOC games in determining a team's overall SOS, but to say that after the conference champions are determined that conference games are irrelevant in determining the best teams is just complete idiocy.
ETA: Dammit! I just saw H-Town and King Joey's posts about the same thing. I scanned a couple of pages after I read it and no one had responded so I just figured if no one had replied by then, no one was gonna. My bad fellas.
This post was edited on 8/1/08 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 8/1/08 at 6:51 pm to King Joey
quote:
This isn't about your hopes, this is about the speculations based on the polls.
Why would you think that I would hope for LSU to get left out?
Moving on, the scenario is not completely out of bounds. The SEC has been very good the past few years, but you seem to state that the SEC is like a whole other division of college football, and everyone else just sucks.
quote:
And to suggest that Cincinnatti, Washington, TCU and UT-Chatanooga are such a murderer's row of juggernauts that those four games alone automatically overcome the differential from the other 9 games on the schedule is just laughable.
For you to dismiss OU off-hand is laughable. The fact is that while OU's conference is not as tough as LSU, there still are some pretty good teams therein. OU will have to beat Texas, Texas Tech, Nebraska and Missouri to win the Big XII, and those are, believe it or not, good teams.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 7:22 pm to Tiger Phil
Darts is convinced that an 0-12 Ohio State team would get in ahead of an undefeated LSU team because they play SC out of conference, and that is all that matters
Can you tell me where I said this at? My opinion is that if OSU, OU, and LSU are all undefeated then LSU is left out. That's it.
Can you tell me where I said this at? My opinion is that if OSU, OU, and LSU are all undefeated then LSU is left out. That's it.
Posted on 8/1/08 at 7:45 pm to Darts
quote:
My opinion is that if OSU, OU, and LSU are all undefeated then LSU is left out. That's it.
then you are wrong. SOS is not based solely on OOC. If LSU beats more ranked teams, they will be in regardless of whether those teams are OOC or not.
An OOC slate of UT Chattanooga, Cincinnati, TCU and Washington may be better than LSU's, but it aint gonna tip the scales in OU's favor, especially if the SEC lives up to its rankings this year.
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