re: How good would JJ and JL be if Jimbo was still here?

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Also, to compare EJ Manuel’s start against Florida when he wasn’t even supposed to play last year because they had the best QB in the ACC to anything Jefferson did last year with an entire season of experience and entire offseason of tutelage as “the man” is just absurd.

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ahhh, but it's not absurd. if you draw the conclusion that crowton can't develop j.j., who was in the same class as manuel, then what the hell is wrong with manuel? he was the number 1 qb in the country.

My point is, it's talent that trumps coaching. you either have a good qb or you don't. it's unfortunate r.p. got kicked off. he appeared to be "developing" under crowton. However, i would say it is because the kid was a good qb to begin with. you either have it or you don't.

case in point, if it's the coaches who make the player vs the player that makes the coach, then your saying b. favre, k warner, big ben, tony romo, flaco ect got better qb development than matt mauk, davey, matt leinart, chris leak, chad henning. ect.

i really don't think if tim tebow, drew breese, peyton manning, ect played under crowton it would have prevented them from being stars. period. What jimbo is excellent at, is recruiting qbs. recognizing their talent. it's why i said, to the people who wanted him gone, we would miss him.

you show me a great coach, i show you a guy who gets or has great players. I love how these n.f.l. coaches are great for a three year period, only to lose their great players to free agency, getting old ect., then all of sudden they are fired because they aren't great coaches anymore.

sean peyton is the hot coach, now. let him lose d.b. and see how great he is.

as to your point about play calling and qb development. you can't use the stats of the best qb play under jimbo/at lsu then say he wasn't a good o.c. or play caller. how did they get all those yards? how is it those were some of our top offenses? doesn't make sense. he's like every o.c. when he has a good qb, line ect they call good plays. when they don't have it, they don't look so good.

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My point is, it's talent that trumps coaching. you either have a good qb or you don't. it's unfortunate r.p. got kicked off. he appeared to be "developing" under crowton. However, i would say it is because the kid was a good qb to begin with. you either have it or you don't.

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Yes, but it's the coach's responsibility to recongize talent and adjust his scheme around the strengths of his players. Crowton doesn't adjust anything, he manages to expose Jefferson's weaknesses as opposed to avoiding it (same for Jarrett Leee). For example, calling a pass play from shotgun formation (in FG range) with less then 30 seconds left with a QB that is known for taking sacks. You can have the best players in the world, if you don't play to their strengths it's pointless.

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What jimbo is excellent at, is recruiting qbs. recognizing their talent. it's why i said, to the people who wanted him gone, we would miss him.

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We saw improvement in QB play under Jimbo. No it wasn't perfect, but QB play improved as the season went on. You can't say that for Crowton. Our QBs have not shown an ounce of improvement so far.

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sean peyton is the hot coach, now. let him lose d.b. and see how great he is.

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Payton is a good example of a coach who plays to his strengths. Brees is a very accurate passer, so why not run an offense that has lots of quick routes where a good, accurate throw results in a completion 90% of the time.

If Brees played for Crowton, Crowton would make him run the option. And install a run first offense from the shotgun formation. I don't how he does it, but Crowton seems to exploit the weakness of a QB and hide his strengths.

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he's like every o.c. when he has a good qb, line ect they call good plays. when they don't have it, they don't look so good.

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No he's not. Crowton never learns, and just when you think he can't call a worse game, he outdoes himself. He ended the season on the stupidest play you can possibly call....A screen pass to the middle of the field with 40 seconds and no timeouts left. There is no justifying that play. It was the stupidest call of the season ending one of the worst LSU offenses in recent memory.

The good news is that Crowton can't possibly make a call that dumb again....I hope.

Mauck was pretty damn solid as a sophomore in 2002 before his injury. I love how people forget that. Randall was playing better as a sophomore that year too.

Also, do you think Jimbo brings in Hatch instead of a legit QB to groom in 2007? No.

Booty (for 1 year) and Davey were under Fisher for 2 years or less and made vast improvements. Hell, Davey outside of one bad game in 2000 was pretty damn good except he was injured.

Mauck was great his second year in the system, but got hurt and came back even better. The only QB he didn't do really well with was Randall, but honestly that was likely more to do with a lack of talent/skill for the position from Randall than Fisher not being able to coach.

Fisher was in no way perfect, but he DEVELOPED QBs at some point. They didn't regress on a consistent basis and he adjusted the scheme and play calling to the talent he had every year outside of the first half of 2006.

Crowton has yet to do that since his first season here with a 5th year senior QB.

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Jimbo will be a flop at Fla. State

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Based on what???

Jimbo was soooo conservative he would have never let Lee or JJ throw the ball. Which could have resulted in a good thing over the past two years but doesn't mean he is a QB groomer. The only reason Jimbo was successful is because Nick Saban's defenses bailed him out game after game. Look at our championship game against OU we score only 7 points cause of our offense. And Saban's D score 14 points off of turnovers. Jimbo didn't do anything but make sure we didn't lose a game while Nick Saban made sure the defense held the other team to a low enough score that our conservative offense could barely out score the other team. I know it has been brought up but only scoring 3 points against Auburn with 3 first round draft picks is unacceptable. Who cares how they turned out in the pros and I don't care if your playing the best defense ever to play college football. With JaMarcus, Bowe, Davis, Doucet, Hester and all the other players on the team 3 points is a freakin joke. As we saw in the last couple minutes when we had to throw we could drive the ball with ease. But no Jimbo made it a priority to run, punt, and establish field position. Not a winners attitude right there. Winners don't play to lose like Jimbo they play to win. Jimbo would have done NOTHING with JJ and Lee. The guys are so young. If they both have terrible years this year then yes the debate is on, but to judge these guys after their freshman and sophmore years is dumb. Jimbo would have done nothing better. Jimbo Fisher is one of the most conservative coaches in the country if we would have still had him we would have never won the Florida game in 2007 because Jimbo would never approved of going for 5 4th downs nor would have we won the Auburn game the same year. Quote me on this Florida State will never regain national prominence with Jimbo...Dude is a joke

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Jimbo was soooo conservative he would have never let Lee or JJ throw the ball. Which could have resulted in a good thing over the past two years but doesn't mean he is a QB groomer. The only reason Jimbo was successful is because Nick Saban's defenses bailed him out game after game. Look at our championship game against OU we score only 7 points cause of our offense. And Saban's D score 14 points off of turnovers. Jimbo didn't do anything but make sure we didn't lose a game while Nick Saban made sure the defense held the other team to a low enough score that our conservative offense could barely out score the other team. I know it has been brought up but only scoring 3 points against Auburn with 3 first round draft picks is unacceptable. Who cares how they turned out in the pros and I don't care if your playing the best defense ever to play college football. With JaMarcus, Bowe, Davis, Doucet, Hester and all the other players on the team 3 points is a freakin joke. As we saw in the last couple minutes when we had to throw we could drive the ball with ease. But no Jimbo made it a priority to run, punt, and establish field position. Not a winners attitude right there. Winners don't play to lose like Jimbo they play to win. Jimbo would have done NOTHING with JJ and Lee. The guys are so young. If they both have terrible years this year then yes the debate is on, but to judge these guys after their freshman and sophmore years is dumb. Jimbo would have done nothing better. Jimbo Fisher is one of the most conservative coaches in the country if we would have still had him we would have never won the Florida game in 2007 because Jimbo would never approved of going for 5 4th downs nor would have we won the Auburn game the same year. Quote me on this Florida State will never regain national prominence with Jimbo...Dude is a joke

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Note to self, paragraph is a great thing

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It's different because Jimbo spent the majority of his time developing Weatherford as opposed to Manuel. Weatherford got the majority of Jimbo's attention and was on his way to ACC POY. Jefferson got the majority of Crowton's attention and he lead one of the worst offenses in LSU history.

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don't you think if he thought manuel was the better of the two he would have spent his time with him and "developed" him? do you really think e.j., if jimbo spent more time with him, would have produced like ponder and become the p.o.y.? the answer to all of that is no. ponder was the better qb, even though not as highly recruited, and jimbo chose to work with him because he gave him the best chance to win.

same here. jefferson, while he's no christian ponder, but is as good or better than manuel, is the best qb we had last year. therefore, the staff spent as much time as they could with him in order to give us the best chance to win.

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same here. jefferson, while he's no christian ponder, but is as good or better than manuel, is the best qb we had last year. therefore, the staff spent as much time as they could with him in order to give us the best chance to win

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You all are missing one of the variable's in this equasion......

You can not compare playing in the ACC to playing in the SEC...

Sorry if you disagree....

It would be hard to argue that the best DB's in the ACC, would likely not start at the top six schools in the SEC.....

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WRONG!!! He didn't lose any game because of a pick6.

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Wow!

I always felt like jarrett lee got a raw deal

Recruited by jimbo, then crowton comes onboard and calls some of the dumbest plays in 2008 I've ever seen.