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re: Examining the calls at the end of the game ...

Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:21 am to
Posted by Buda
Member since Nov 2009
408 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:21 am to
quote:

Thanks so much for a completely ridiculous breakdown. You clearly know very little about football, or how the rules are enforced.


I love it when idiots on this board challenge my football knowledge. I'd venture to say I have forgotten more about football than you (and most posters on this board) will ever know.

I just tried to look at each call objectively, not like an emotional 12-year-old girl who wants to whine about the loss.

You can disagree if you want; but, if you can't see deal with the facts and analysis I laid out and speak to them intelligently, then don't even try to talk about football knowledge.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
107382 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:22 am to
quote:

Not at all. If they call that on the field, the clock never stops running. It would have taken 10 seconds minimum just to get everyone back to the line, much less to get a play in. It would have been chaos, instead they got 5 minutes to talk over strategy. Any coach would trade 10 seconds for a timeout after a sack in that situation.



Basically, the SEC just gave teams and QBs a new way to get a timeout on game ending drive. Bobble the ball, fall to a knee, and toss the ball to a defender. Profit.
Posted by Bengals18
Breaux Bridge Louisiana
Member since Dec 2015
252 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:25 am to
On the play called with the knee down, was that called from the field ref or video replay ref in the booth. If from the booth I didn't know that they could throw yellow flags from there.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
107382 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:26 am to
quote:

On the play called with the knee down, was that called from the field ref or video replay ref in the booth. If from the booth I didn't know that they could throw yellow flags from there.


It wasn't deemed a penalty.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
59752 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:27 am to
quote:

That is a 100% fumble anyway you slice.


No it's not.
Posted by sabanisarustedspoke
Member since Jan 2007
5440 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:29 am to
quote:


The problem is how it was enforced. They stop the clock and that allows Texas A&M to reset.



That is exactly right. Had they made the correct call the clock would've kept running and less likely they would've pulled 6 rabbits out of their arse
Posted by LSUminati
Member since Jan 2017
3796 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:32 am to
quote:

It is impossible to snap and spike with :01 on the clock and have no additional time run off.


THANK YOU. No one is saying this. If college football wanted, they'd have tenths of seconds like in basketball. A&M virtually got a free timeout.
Posted by EvrybodysAllAmerican
Member since Apr 2013
12072 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:33 am to
8) 3 penalties on texas A&M in a whole game and 7 overtimes. Meanwhile calling ticky tack pass interference, and even worse, an unsportsmanlike on Greedy at the most important point of the game. The refs were totally caught up in the momentum of the crowd at best, downright crooked at worst.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 11:35 am
Posted by Wes225
Member since Jan 2017
727 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:34 am to
quote:

The Sternberger fumble/incompletion. Very much a judgment call. The review was correct not to overturn because it was called incomplete on the field. The original call could have gone either way and, whichever way it went, the review would not have overturned. Unfortunate 50-50 call.

They didn't even review this...
Posted by Fastcat
Member since Nov 2016
441 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:41 am to
So if that incomplete pass would have broke the goal line prior to getting the ball knocked out would it have been called a TD or still an incomplete pass.
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:41 am to
quote:

I've never seen a definitive clock stoppage of a game determined by an instantaneous visual replay act. That's not how the timekeeping of a football game has ever been determined, as far as I'm aware

Didn't they do this around 2009 in a Texas game when McCoy threw the ball out of bounds? I think the clock ran out, but they reviewed it and determined the ball hit something OOB with a second or two still on the clock.
Posted by taf
Kansas City, KS
Member since Dec 2003
778 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:42 am to
Love the Tigers, but I think I can be reasonably objective. So, my honest take on your take:

1) Not sure you're correct here. Does putting one's hand on the ball with the knee down after a fumble end the play? Have to say, I'm not certain here, but it's not like a kick. A missed snap from center is a fumble. If a guy kneels next to a loose ball with his hand on it, and other players jump on the ball, who gets the ball? Pretty sure they'd give it to the guys who jumped on the ball. I don't know...maybe there is some special arcane rule that I don't know about that covers this.

2) Yes

3) Right, ball was snapped with one second. But not sure you can have one second left after that. How do you add back one second? Formation was probably ok, though. Iffy, but probably ok. Were they set? Not sure, but refs usually give some leeway on that, so I'm not bothered by that particular no call.

4) I think it was a catch/fumble. This is not the NFL, which has confused everyone about what constitutes a catch. I don't think they even reviewed it, did they?

5) Yes. Bad call.

6) Yes.

7) Mostly agree with you. I think it's a bad call, but it is a judgment. But why is that the Tigers ended up on the wrong side of every judgment call at the end of the game?

Anyway, the Tigers had plenty of chances to win it. Delpit dropped the INT on 3rd down. The 4th OT possession after first and goal was atrocious.
But A&M got so many breaks and the benefit of some bad calls. Just on random chance, the game should've ended multiple times.
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:42 am to
quote:

So if that incomplete pass would have broke the goal line prior to getting the ball knocked out would it have been called a TD or still an incomplete pass.

Still would have been an incomplete pass.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3379 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:44 am to
quote:

4) The Sternberger fumble/incompletion. Very much a judgment call. The review was correct not to overturn because it was called incomplete on the field. The original call could have gone either way and, whichever way it went, the review would not have overturned. Unfortunate 50-50 call.


IMO.. I disagree completely.. I do not think it was a "judgement" call... He firmly had control of the ball and made a football move... and several analysts/pundits (I do not have "links" to substantiate) have said the exact same thing..

I think if you look at 100 different video's of similar plays, what you would find in both pro and college games, 98 or more would be called complete with fumble... and the other two would be wrong..

Seriously tho.. It was an absolutely terrible call that effected the outcome of the game.
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7558 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:47 am to
I generally agree with your relatively dispassionate view of the calls. It was incredibly hard to take as a Tiger fan because every call went against, but we can acknowledge that they varied from 50/50 to plain wrong. Here is my take on them:

1) The interception that wasn't. Good call. Replay clearly showed his knee was down while grasping the ball. It sucks, but that was a correct call.

I agree this was the correct call, but you're not addressing the importance of it being missed on the field. The 10 second runoff was NOTHING compared to the absolute chaos that would have resulted from the call of "QB down" being made in real time. LSU wins if call on field is correct.

2) The first down on 4th and 18. Good call.

Agreed. This one looked horrible, but it sounds like this has been clarified as the yellow line just being inaccurate on the broadcast.

3) The extra second added to the clock after the spike. Probably a good call (with a caveat).

Agreed. Could have gone either way, but I think they got this one right. Also, the views I have seen show an illegal formation regardless of whether you think the four WRs were on or off the line. What is clear is that they were in the same place. I get how a ref could miss this in the heat of the moment, but it was a miss and it was game determinative.

4) The Sternberger fumble/incompletion. Very much a judgment call.

I agree that this one was close but lean more strongly than you toward the correct call being a fumble bc the receiver was tucking the ball away. TAMU got away with one here but I would call this a 60/40 call with the "40" prevailing in TAMU's favor. Agree that this one was too close to overturn.

5) The PI on Williams. Horrible call!

Amen, brother. This call was a complete disaster. However, this just means we keep playing. It does mean LSU wins.

6) JaMarr Chase no catch. Correct call.

Agreed.

7) The targeting call on Phillips. Questionable, but ...

I mostly agree but I never saw their helmets and the initial point of contact was shoulder to shoulder. I cannot say the helmets did not contact, though. I mostly just HATE this rule more than I hate the call the ref made here. Another 50/50 call to TAMU.

8) You have to add the blatant miss on TAMU's illegal motion. Not game determinative, but godawful.

My takeaway: this was a game marred by a number of officiating errors in favor of one team and all of the 50/50 calls went the same way which makes it seem even worse. Poor officiating contributed heavily to determining the outcome.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3379 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:48 am to
quote:

Anyway, the Tigers had plenty of chances to win it. Delpit dropped the INT on 3rd down. The 4th OT possession after first and goal was atrocious.
But A&M got so many breaks and the benefit of some bad calls. Just on random chance, the game should've ended multiple times.


I agree with this...

Posted by phideauxlsu
White Oak,TX
Member since Jan 2007
1379 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:48 am to
(4) 3 and outs, (1) 5 and out. If we had a offense and played to win for 60 minutes we are up by 1 if not 2 or more TD’s and the rest doesn’t happen!
Posted by LouisianaLonghorn
Austin, Texas
Member since Jan 2006
15110 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:49 am to
quote:

Didn't they do this around 2009 in a Texas game when McCoy threw the ball out of bounds? I think the clock ran out, but they reviewed it and determined the ball hit something OOB with a second or two still on the clock.


Yep. That was the 2009 Big XII championship game versus Nebraska. McCoy threw the ball out of bounds with one second on the clock. Texas kicked a field goal to win 13-12.
Posted by smash williams
San Diego
Member since Apr 2009
20351 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:50 am to
There's a lot of subjectivity in your original post. You also failed to mention the no call on the false start that resulted in a big run.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
107382 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 11:51 am to
quote:

quote:
Didn't they do this around 2009 in a Texas game when McCoy threw the ball out of bounds? I think the clock ran out, but they reviewed it and determined the ball hit something OOB with a second or two still on the clock.


Yep. That was the 2009 Big XII championship game versus Nebraska. McCoy threw the ball out of bounds with one second on the clock. Texas kicked a field goal to win 13-12.



I think I vaguely remember this one. Was the clock deemed stopped the moment the ball crossed the out of bounds line?
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