re: Does anyone believe in LSU basketball?

How is it that people can't see that this program is improving? They finished 7-9 in conference and have all five starters returning. 3 of the 5 were new players. I'm disappointed in Stringer and Turner too. I expected more, but both improved their 3-point, field goal and free throw percentages from last year. I expect to see improvement again. Also, how can people not be excited about a freshman point guard that played as well as Hickey did? If O'Bryant develops the 15' jump shot, he's going to be a difference maker and the high-low game he and Hamilton will play will be very difficult to defend. We're going to need Morgan to be scorer and to land two more recruits that can give us valuable minutes. In short, I believe in LSU basketball.

NO

quote:

---

Would I have wanted to hire him four years ago if I would have known where the program would be today? Yes

---

First off, congrats and thanks for being the first Trent supporter to answer the question after three or four weeks of its having been asked.

Now, you say you would have wanted to hire him four years ago even if you knew at the time how the program would perform up to now. I'm surprised you would have been in favor of going through 2-14 and 3-13 SEC seasons back to back, with only a 7-9 season as the bounceback "reward" for all the rebuilding. If I had known four years ago what the next four seasons would hold under Johnson, I would have said there's no sense wasting money on a new coach and paying off John Brady if we're just going to get results similar to (actually worse than) Brady's.

quote:

---

The foundation is in place. We suffered through 2 very poor seasons. We're not going through that again anytime soon. I expect this team to be a tournament caliber team year and year out now.

---

So, basically, it's all about faith in the future under Johnson, and little or nothing about what he's done. He's still preaching his self-serving message, "have patience, we'll get there", and you are obviously still buying it. Fair enough, but Curley Hallman also preached that message right to the bitter end, as did every other coach in history who failed to get the job done. Name any LSU coach in history who was still depending on people to have faith after four years and later justified that faith with good performance. And don't give me Dale Brown. That was a very different situation. Dale's first four years, while not great, were a lot better than what he took over in the post-Pistol Pete years. Johnson has shown no appreciable improvement over Brady.

quote:

---

I don't expect to win the SEC as long as Calipari is at Kentucky and no one else should either

---

That's a defeatist attitude that doesn't make sense. I guarantee you Florida, Tennessee and other schools absolutely expect to win the SEC at least sometimes, regardless of who is coaching at Kentucky. LSU should, too.

quote:

---

I do expect that he will have LSU in the top 4 or 5 in the SEC regularly

---

More faith based on nothing but Johnson's self-serving promises.

quote:

---

Are you suggesting it couldn't have been worse?

---

I'm suggesting that the last two seasons before this one could not realistically have been worse. I don't believe in rewarding bad performance by reducing the expected level of performance going forward. The fact that TJ had an inexcusably horrible season in 2011 is no reason to excuse an inexcusably mediocre season in 2012.

The fact is that we should have been better than we were in 2011, but we failed. Now, in 2012, we should have been even better, building off of a better season in 2011, but since we failed in 2011, and failed again in 2012 to generate sufficient improvement, we are even futher behind schedule. As a result, some will now be satisfied with a .500 SEC record and NCAA first-round loss in Johnson's fifth year in 2013, when we should have been much further along than that. It's a self-fulfilling progression of failure justifying more failure, and is not the way progress should be evaluated.

LSU basketballs (mens) only hope is that another super talented freak athlete kid from Louisiana loves LSU so much that he wants to come here. Im talking naismith player of the year candidate level. A guy that could get other star recruits to want to come here to play with him.

That and Trent is replaced by an up and coming young coach that teaches fundamental basketball and aggressiveness at the same time.

That would cure our ills

quote:

---

First it was, "Would you have wanted to hire TJ if you knew where the program would be today?" Now it's, "You would have wanted to hire him if you knew how the program would perform up to now." Those are not the same thing

---

I certainly meant them as the same thing, but would you really feel better if we'd had better seasons the last two years and then had this one?

And, by the way, this isn't the first time I've asked this question. I've asked it several times over the past few weeks, and in each instance, it was clear that I was referring to the entire performance over Johnson's tenure here. Not one person has said they they would still hire him if they knew in advance four years ago how the past four years would go, unless you count LATIGERFAN and get rid of the distinction you are trying to make here.

quote:

---

You're bitching at people for having faith in him despite evidence to the contrary.

---

I'm not bitching, I'm just pointing out that faith is about the only thing that would keep someone believing in him, given the lack of results.

quote:

---

Why don't you go ahead and call out every Christian in the world while you're at it?

---

Wrong board, but I frequently do.

quote:

---

No one has to justify to you their belief that TJ will get the job done. Faith is inherently irrational

---

True, and VERY TRUE.

quote:

---

I really think TJ is in the process of building a sustainable Vandy-type program here.

---

If Vandy is the model, then that's a major problem. They haven't won the SEC title in almost 20 years (we've won three in the meantime). This year was their first SEC tournament title in over 60 years. They have never been to the Final Four (we've been to four), or even past the Sweet 16 (we've been past it at least six times). They just made their 13th NCAA tournament this year (we've been to 20). Prior to this year, they had won a total of 9 NCAA tournament games in their entire history (we've won 24).

A large public university with the resources and history that LSU has should not aspire to be a small private school program with no history to speak of that doesn't even have an athletic department. Why isn't Florida the model? Or, hell, for that matter, Kentucky?

I'll be as happy as anyone if LSU basketball becomes strong again. If Trent Johnson is the one to do it, great. It'll save us the trouble, expense and instability of firing him and starting over with someone else. But based on his performance so far, there's no reason to believe he's got what it takes to get it done. Over the four years he's been here, the only thing that's changed since the Brady years is that recruiting has gotten worse. The inconsistency is still there and arguably worse. What was the point of trading an inconsistent coach who could recruit for one who can't?

quote:

---

I have the want to believe.

---

I, unfortunately, do not have the want

quote:

---

If Vandy is the model, then that's a major problem.

---

This.

There is a big problem when Vandy is what LSU fans want the basketball program modeled after. That's the highest hope people have?

I truly believe that LSU will not get beat by more than 10 points in the opening round of the NIT after the next regular season...I think they were embarrassed by the Oregon beating and will be motivated to not lose as bad.

Does Vandy even have an AD?

Alleva, you listening?

Get busy!

quote:

---

When the LSU basketball program is 40-55 combined the last 3 seasons and has reached the NCAA tourney 5 times in 17 years, the Vandy record of 139-62 since 07 with 5 NCAA trips in 6 years

---

It's always fun to cherry pick stats to suit your argument, isn't it? LSU's 5 NCAA tournament appearances in 17 years is only two less than Vandy's 7 in the same time period, and features 7 tournament wins to Vandy's 6. So, even in your little cherry-picked 17 year period, LSU is about even or arguably ahead of Vandy.

quote:

---

doesn't seem all that bad to shoot for to me.

---

And that is the problem with LSU basketball. We're just hoping someday to be Vandy, with no thought of ever being Florida or Kentucky.

quote:

---

how bout we knock Vandy basketball when we not looking up at them from a good distance.

---

How bout we look a little higher than Vandy?