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Started By
Message
re: Defense: Begins and Ends with the Front 4
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:51 am to Tiger on the Rag
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:51 am to Tiger on the Rag
quote:
Need an upgrade of talent.
This incoming class should help, but you can’t be happy with Lawrence or Chaisson’s development
Guys like Roy and Burch are the kind of DEs we need.
1
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:51 am to SammyTiger
True to an extent. Definitely the most important but DB play is right behind that.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:52 am to BayouCowboy
quote:
Aranda's defense is based off of LB play to include the rush OLB/DE (Chaisson). That's been known since he got here and even discussed in terms of recruiting. One of the reasons mentioned by Marvin Wilson going to FSU was he wanted to be in a system that the DL was more disruptive.
Aranda's D uses the DL to hold space and allow the LBs to flow to the ball. Shelvin gets a push, but the DL don't stunt and only bull rush which won't get significant pressure. We aren't getting TFLs by our LBs because they are taking bad angles, getting caught on blocks, missing lanes and not being aggressive enough. Chaisson is getting handled way too easy.
This is not unique to LSU. Bama runs similar scheme. They also are seeing the personnel issues due to draft and injury. Before the LSU-Bama game there was a story on Bama’s D and whether they would be able to get to Burrow. Turns out that >80% of their sacks this yr are by LBs and DBs. Their DL only have 2-3 sacks this year.
Sound familiar?
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:54 am to SammyTiger
I dont ever see spin moves by the ends. They get pushed farther outside. A simple spin move back to the center would make a huge diff
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:55 am to GetmorewithLes
Yeah but you gotta count Lewis as a DL/Front 4 player
Posted on 11/27/19 at 9:57 am to SammyTiger
Seems like a very fair assessment, so is the blame on recruiting or development?
Either would fall on CEO, NO?
D line is his specialty or all on Aranda as he has handed it fully off to him?
Either would fall on CEO, NO?
D line is his specialty or all on Aranda as he has handed it fully off to him?
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:00 am to BayouCowboy
quote:
We lack a leader on the D and a thumper like White. It's incredibly disappointing no one has stepped up to fill that role.
Well, D White is only one of the best LB's to ever play the game and easily the best LSU has had in, well, ever.
You don't just replace a guy like D White.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:12 am to BleedPnG
quote:
Seems like a very fair assessment, so is the blame on recruiting or development?
A little of both.
If you look at our Front 4 recruiting since 2016 it’s kinda meh
NT
Shelvin 5* - 2017
Livingston 3* 2018 (not on team)
Ika 4* - 2019
Evans 3* -2019
DE
Ferrell 3* 2017
Thomas 3* 2017 (not on team)
Cotton 4* 2018 (not on team)
Nelson 3* 2018
Cherry 4* 2018
Parker 4* OT switched to DE 2019
McKlendon 3* TE switches to DE 2019
Edge
Chaisson 5* 2017
Moore 4* 2018
Scott 3* 2018 (not on team)
Little 3* 2019
Fonua 3* 2019 (not eligible)
You can count Brook a 5* but he can’t exactly play all three downs at this point.
That’s a lot of players not playing and not the type of recruiting that builds a dominant Front 4.
But Chaisson and Lawrence have a ton of potential and no moves.
This post was edited on 11/27/19 at 10:13 am
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:17 am to SammyTiger
DL recruiting has been subpar for three years and the results are finally showing on the field.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:20 am to GetmorewithLes
quote:
This is not unique to LSU. Bama runs similar scheme. They also are seeing the personnel issues due to draft and injury. Before the LSU-Bama game there was a story on Bama’s D and whether they would be able to get to Burrow. Turns out that >80% of their sacks this yr are by LBs and DBs. Their DL only have 2-3 sacks this year.
This is true. Both teams have completely changed their offensive philosophies from when most of the current front 7 players were recruited. Back then stopping the run was first & foremost which is how both defenses seem to be built.
Both teams run 3-4 looks but neither have really recruited those speed disruptive OLBs who cause havoc especially on 3rd down in obvious passing situations.
Outside of the Ole Miss game where stopping misdirection & the zone read was an issue, getting off the field on some crucial 3rd downs every game is the issue that keeps arising.
Now that the Tigers run an offense that puts pressure on opponents by scoring at will, recruiting game changing pass rushers is a must. Opposing teams will be passing much more in order to keep up or catch up which means pressure & sacks will be a must going forward.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:23 am to SammyTiger
the LSU front 7 is lacking, there's no question about it. there have been some serious whiffs in d-line recruiting over the last several years and this is the product of that
that 2018 recruiting class...whew. not good.
that 2018 recruiting class...whew. not good.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:23 am to BigBrod81
quote:
Both teams run 3-4 looks but neither have really recruited those speed disruptive OLBs who cause havoc especially on 3rd down in obvious passing situations.
Chaisson is supposed to be that guy, but after him (and before him going back to Key) we haven’t recruited many others.
I also Think a big issue is the type of DEs we recruit and you’re dead on. We recruited a bunch of Marcel Dareus type players to stop the run, we don’t have any JJ Watt 3-5 DEs who can pass rush.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:24 am to sanora
quote:
that 2018 recruiting class...whew. not good.
That's an understatement
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:26 am to Damone
NT looks great.
But yeah with Evans at NT recruiting 0 DEs is an issue
But yeah with Evans at NT recruiting 0 DEs is an issue
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:27 am to Damone
i feel like some of htem are going to work out going forward but...none of the guys i feel this way about are on the d-line 
honestly, O has to load up on front 7 guys in the next few recruiting classes. there's no way around it.
honestly, O has to load up on front 7 guys in the next few recruiting classes. there's no way around it.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:32 am to Damone
Our D-line is not bad but a big problem is somehow to teach them the fundamentals and finer nuances for a unit that is so important in creating havoc.... I am not at all impressed with our dline coach.... Look at Larry Johnson at OSU (the best in the business)...Do you think that the Bosa boys and Chase Young suddenly caused havoc...No, they needed guidance and coaching... I don't care how much of a 5* you get, he wants and needs coaching to reap his talent.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:35 am to bayou prince
i don't think LSU has the athletes or the depth it's used to on the d-line but i agree that the d-line coach doesn't seem to be helping either. in my opinion anyway. i don't know the nuances of defensive line technique or anything so i can't talk about specific things
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:38 am to SammyTiger
LSU doesn’t have a “front 4” Sammy. It’s a front 3.
Lawrence
Logan
Shelvin
Farrell
Fehoko
Will all get drafted
Justin Thomas was really coming on too.
Aranda has been at LSU thru 3 recruiting classes, with the first one being on the heels of a coaching firing. Most of the guys in his first cycle are just low becoming draft eligible
Lawrence
Logan
Shelvin
Farrell
Fehoko
Will all get drafted
Justin Thomas was really coming on too.
Aranda has been at LSU thru 3 recruiting classes, with the first one being on the heels of a coaching firing. Most of the guys in his first cycle are just low becoming draft eligible
This post was edited on 11/27/19 at 10:40 am
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:39 am to Lester Earl
yeah losing justin thomas was a big loss. he was making an impact.
Posted on 11/27/19 at 10:41 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I also Think a big issue is the type of DEs we recruit and you’re dead on. We recruited a bunch of Marcel Dareus type players to stop the run, we don’t have any JJ Watt 3-5 DEs who can pass rush.
I think it may have something to do with Aranda being used to "bargain basement shopping" at Wisconsin. It was a challenge for him to get elite talent there. He got used to settling & making it work there in the Big 10.
It's different in the SEC. You better have the horses & 2-3 elite, game changing players on your unit every season. Aranda has seemed to do a good job of getting horses but he has failed to be able bring in those elite, game changing players in the front 7 outside of Devin White.
I also have serious questions of the development & usage of Chaisson. Based off his speed off the edge & ability to bend, he should be getting more pressure than he has this season. He has Danielle Hunter written all over him where he will get to the NFL & really blossom if he gets placed in the right system with the right coaches
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