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re: Confused about the “non” fumble last night.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 9:48 am to moneyg
Posted on 10/17/22 at 9:48 am to moneyg
I guess another way of looking at it, which isn’t necessarily reflected in the rules, is that he was in the act of making a pass - he was facing downfield, apparently looking down a receiver and his upper body motion was making a pass, he wasn’t obviously running, holding or doing anything with the ball other than attempting a pass. 
But according to the rules, and as called on the field without sufficient evidence to overturn, should have remained a fumble.
But according to the rules, and as called on the field without sufficient evidence to overturn, should have remained a fumble.
0
Posted on 10/17/22 at 10:00 am to GumboPot
quote:
AND (notice the rule uses the conjunction and...very important). 2. the ball leaves the passer’s hand (this criterion was never met).
That’s the clearest breakdown I’ve seen. It couldn’t have been a forward pass despite the motion because contact was made forcing the ball out not after it left his hand.
That’s it right there and it makes sense.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 10:03 am to Havoc
quote:That's not what the rule says. I mean, the ball did leave his hand
It couldn’t have been a forward pass despite the motion because contact was made forcing the ball out not after it left his hand.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 10:10 am to moneyg
quote:
As per the rules, no.
It's dumb. The ball was dislodged before it left the QBs hand and went backwards. But, because his arm was moving forward, it is considered a forward pass.
This is where the rule makes no sense. If the ball is knocked out of the hand it's not "batted down or tipped".
By the same rule a runner that swings his arm forward and has the ball dislodged can be ruled a forward pass as well since a shuttle pass is a pass.
I know it's a ridiculous parallel, but it sounds like the rule would apply.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 11:47 am to AlxTgr
quote:
quote:
It couldn’t have been a forward pass despite the motion because contact was made forcing the ball out not after it left his hand.
That's not what the rule says. I mean, the ball did leave his hand
quote:
If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball after forward movement begins and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player
But it only left his hand because of the contact, so if it isn't a forward pass (and an incomplete one) then what is it?
The way you're reading it, it would be written like this:
quote:
If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball after forward movement begins[,] and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player
Posted on 10/17/22 at 1:33 pm to Havoc
quote:
But it only left his hand because of the contact, so if it isn't a forward pass (and an incomplete one) then what is it?
The way you're reading it, it would be written like this:
Correct. The ball leaving the hand part is either by throwing or being knocked out. The forward movement began and then the ball left the hand (knocked out), making it a forward pass. The second view clearly showed a 2-3 inch forward movement before the ball was knocked out. I'm as big of a Tiger fan as any, but they made the right call.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 1:49 pm to Havoc
quote:
But it only left his hand because of the contact, so if it isn't a forward pass (and an incomplete one) then what is it?
The way you're reading it, it would be written like this:
No, that's incorrect. It left his hand. It was correctly called.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 1:53 pm to The Mick
You described it perfectly. The ball never left his hand until it was knocked backwards so either way it is a live ball. Terrible call, the refs were awful down the stretch.
This post was edited on 10/17/22 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 10/17/22 at 1:56 pm to Madking
I was knocked backwards during the process of his arm moving forward for a pass. It was called correctly.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 1:59 pm to Mo Jeaux
The ball was in his hand until it went backwards. It doesn’t matter if his arm slightly began to go forward it’s not a tipped ball situation, the ball never left his hand and that’s a fumble.
This post was edited on 10/17/22 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:01 pm to Madking
quote:
The ball was in his hand until it went backwards. It doesn’t matter if his arm slightly began to go forward it’s not a tipped ball situation, the ball never left his hand.
The ball obviously left his hand. It fell on the ground. Read the rule. It's posted in this thread.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:03 pm to Mo Jeaux
No it didn’t. Let’s assume you’re correct, that the arm moved forward, if you took Perkins out of the play and his arm came forward but the ball went backwards it’s still a fumble.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:04 pm to Madking
quote:
Let’s assume you’re correct, that the arm moved forward, if you took Perkins out of the play and his arm came forward but the ball went backwards it’s still a fumble.
I don't care about that hypothetical, because the rule expressly states "If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball".
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:08 pm to Mo Jeaux
You’re describing a tipped pass but the ball never came close to leaving his hand.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:10 pm to Madking
quote:
You’re describing a tipped pass but the ball never came close to leaving his hand.
No I'm not. I'm describing a plain reading of the rule. The rule speaks to a team B player making contact with the passer or the ball.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:15 pm to Mo Jeaux
That rule doesn’t apply
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:15 pm to Madking
quote:
That rule doesn’t apply
Why not?
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:16 pm to Madking
This is what it was. Perk rejected the ball.
Richardson was going for the dunk without the ball.
Live call was fumble. It was a fumble.
Richardson was going for the dunk without the ball.
Live call was fumble. It was a fumble.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:18 pm to LSU9102
quote:
It was a fumble.
Only if you ignore the rule, which a lot of you are for some odd reason.
Posted on 10/17/22 at 2:20 pm to Mo Jeaux
There’s a still shot of the exact moment the ball is touched by Perk, Richardsons arm is cocked back, not moving forward. Does his arm move forward during the play, yes, is the ball in his hand when it does, no. That’s a fumble.
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