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re: Can an old timer give a history lesson of the LSU/Kentucky basketball series?
Posted on 1/25/13 at 7:38 pm to danfraz
Posted on 1/25/13 at 7:38 pm to danfraz
quote:
danfraz
When the Hustler's beat UK in OT with a unreal number of guys fouled out, that's when LSU took off under Dale.
The Hustlers were Dale's first team, 72/73. Eddie Palubinskis, Bill Whittle, Collis Temple, Big Ed Leblanc, John Engquist, Mike Darnell, Al "Little Apple" Sanders.
The team that won the starter foul out game included Willie Sims, Rudy Macklin, Al Green, Ethan "E" Martin, Jordy Hultberg, Cookie Man, Andy Campbell, Tree Green. Those guys.
0
Posted on 1/25/13 at 8:20 pm to 1984Tiger
Dale Brown had the right group for quite a few seasons. Dale wasn't a great coach but he was a great motivator. Dale had quite a few teams that could have won it all, but he was always out coached. I remember when Indiana was behind us at the half and Knight said that he wasn't worried when he looked across the court and saw Dale Brown was the coach. Knight and a few other coaches stated that if their teams had the talent that LSU had at the time, they would have been undefeated and won it all.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:56 am to avondale88
That's what sucks. Dale was great for LSU though.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 5:04 am to avondale88
quote:
Dale wasn't a great coach but he was a great motivator.
I don't think that's quite fair.
He was a great coach in some ways, for some styles of play, and for some types of "freak" defenses. I don't think any other coach in America could have won some of the games he did with the players he had.
He just wasn't able to adjust to some of the newer elements of big time basketball. Also, he was always at war with referees and the NCAA. Many of his criticisms were valid, and certainly the refs did gift games to other teams (such as Indiana in '87, when they consistently allowed outrageous moving picks).
Dale's downfall was that he was just too obstinate. Rather than find another way to win with Shaq as a center, he insisted on keeping the same offensive plan so he could wage a PR campaign against the way referees let other teams beat LSU with the Hack-a-Shaq strategy. It's nice to defend Shaq and all, but damn, come on, Dale. It would have been nice if LSU didn't woefully underperform during the Shaq years, but they did, which is ironic considering all Dale accomplished in the late 70's & 80's.
When you look at the season before Shaq arrived, and the season after Shaq left, his presence really had almost no effect on the team's success. His only SEC title in 1991 was followed by a 1-and-done in the NCAA Tourney. It says volumes that LSU was more or less the same quality of team with Ricky Blanton (who was really a shooting guard) or Geert Hammink at center as with Shaquille O'Neal.
This post was edited on 1/26/13 at 5:06 am
Posted on 1/26/13 at 7:26 am to avondale88
quote:
Dale Brown had the right group for quite a few seasons.
You missed my point ... the right group for Dale was a bunch of underachievers. He struggled with what to do with the top notch talent (Shaq, CJ, etc). Must suck for those other coaches that Dale was able to get all that talent, while they were left saying "I could have won if I had his team's talent".
And Bobby Knight was a prick who succeeded through intimidation. He wasn't worried in that game because he knew he would eventually get the calls from the refs.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:06 am to Doc Fenton
quote:
I don't think that's quite fair.
He was a great coach in some ways, for some styles of play, and for some types of "freak" defenses. I don't think any other coach in America could have won some of the games he did with the players he had.
I never have and never be one of the wistful Dale apologists. Even in the best of years his act annoyed me more than anything.
But I have always loved LSU basketball and for the first 24 years of my life as an LSU fan, he was our coach and his teams gave me some great memories. I'm thankful for that.
I think he probably knew more about hoops that he'll ever get credit for, but I just think it was hard for him to focus on the details as he had so many other interests. It was hard for him to stay on task. I think he was probably an ADHD guy before we knew what that was.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:34 am to avondale88
quote:
I remember when Indiana was behind us at the half and Knight said that he wasn't worried when he looked across the court and saw Dale Brown was the coach.
that's a pretty flimsy account of that episode. Knight was very complimentary of LSU and the gameplan after that 1 pt loss to #1 Indiana. He made his wiseacre comment about 5 months later in rebuttal to Dale going on ESPN during the summer talking about what a bully Knight was,mainly in regards to phone slamming incident that would have gotten any other coach ejected.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:35 am to 1984Tiger
quote:
the right group for Dale was a bunch of underachievers
1981 called and said wut???
1981 Final Four team was the best LSU TEAM in our history. If Rudy hadn't injured that finger I still beleieve they would have won it all.
So no, it was underachivers that Dale needed to win, it was just the right amount of stars and gritty players. Kind of like every team in every sport. It's not easy to win.
On the 31 pt comeback vs UK, ya know the funniest thing I took from all of that was Brown's quote of "how in the world did we get up by 31?"...which was true. The end was already near, BBall had lost traction and that team was not good. And it was a great UK team
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:38 am to danfraz
quote:
1981 called and said wut???
1981 Final Four team was the best LSU TEAM in our history. If Rudy hadn't injured that finger I still beleieve they would have won it all.
Well said. The 1980 team was probably the second best team after Louisville. For some reason message board posters on LSU forums enjoy trying to minimize and trivialize what Dale accomplished. No fanbase eats its own more than LSU fans.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:56 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
The 1980 team was probably the second best team after Louisville
they were. And probably the most talented LSU team ever. Scales was such a head case though
There was a stretch of a large number of years where LSU always lost to the eventual NCAA champ
Posted on 1/26/13 at 7:21 pm to danfraz
I'm thankful for Dale Brown because he put LSU basketball on the map after Pistol Pete had left. Being a sophmore at LSU, when we played Kentucky in the AG center was incredible. Pete was a once in a lifetime show, and I'm glad that I was alive to witness his outstanding ability. I guess many alumni my age, would agree because Pete was a hard act to follow. I always respected Dale and I was pissed at what Lester Earl did. Dale hated the NCAA and he called them out. They responded by believing that liar and forcing Dale to resign. I still believe that Dale was a great motivator, however he didn't know how to coach a great player. I would definitely rank Dale as one of the best bb coaches at LSU. Lester Earl's apology did nothinf for me. His lies gave sanctions against LSU and Dale, being the man that he is, forgave him.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 10:34 pm to avondale88
One of the greatest sport's experiences of my life was going to Philly to see the Tigers in the final four. They were awesome in the first half and in the second half didn't look like the same team. It was so sad losing to Indiana that year.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 10:59 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
I have very blurry memories of '86 & '87.
in 86 we lost to Uk 3 times. two regular season and in the sec tourney then beat them in the NCAA tourney.
87 was great at rupp. that us when anthony Wilson went nuts we won 76-41. it was great.
Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:15 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
losing to Bobby fricking Knight and the Hoosiers in 1987 in the Elite 8 had to be the most heartbreaking loss in the history of LSU basketball. I really can't imagine anything coming close to being that devastating.
That was a crushing loss...always felt we had the best team that year...
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:52 am to Tiger in Texas
quote:
losing to Bobby fricking Knight and the Hoosiers in 1987 in the Elite 8 had to be the most heartbreaking loss in the history of LSU basketball.
quote:
That was a crushing loss...always felt we had the best team that year
Not the biggest Dale guy on here but I thought that tournament run was his best coaching job. One could argue we would not have made it out of the first round in '86 had we not played the first game in the Assembly Center.
But that '87 team was less talented. We had Darryl Joe and Bernie Woodside at guards for goodness sake but they maximized their strength which was great defense.
Outplayed a much more talented Indiana team and should have won. I think Dale going to the 4-corners with a 9-point lead when Indiana could not stop Nikita Wilson was a move I'd imagine Dale regrets.
It was the most heartbreaking LSU loss in any sport for me, cause the Final Four was in New Orleans that year.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:07 pm to Tiger in Texas
quote:
That was a crushing loss.
yep
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