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Posted on 10/25/22 at 3:57 pm to FIVEON
quote:
The lack of depth is part of the problem, but it's not like we are throwing out walk-ons to cover kicks. Our coverage unit in SEC games has included players like Harold Perkins, Jaray Jenkins, Joe Foucha, Jarrick Bernard-Converse, Demario Tolan, and Micah Baskerville. Coaches with just as little time and scholarships available have performed well with these players. The depth and scholarships does not provide a pass.
Maybe they should consider more walk-ons. The coverage units improved dramatically once they added #89 Jack Rilling to them for the last two games. He almost blocked a punt vs Ole Miss as well.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 4:20 pm to FIVEON
quote:I only care because the dude can recruit nationally but IIRC I looked at the NCAA's numbers and his units were top 30 every season except last year which ranked 41st.
we must recognize that not once in 5 years on Kelly's staff at Notre Dame did Polian's Special Teams rank in the Top 25 according to Football Outsiders.
Obviously, the concepts are solid. Personnel is the only excuse I can entertain.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 4:36 pm to FIVEON
He is a terrible special teams but an excellent recruiting coach. He just needs to be reassigned or giving an assistant that can actually run the show
Posted on 10/25/22 at 6:39 pm to FIVEON
He is the worst special teams coach in the history of organized football.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 6:52 pm to Turf Taint
quote:
Commence to disprove this..
Special teams is all about reps. If you want to say that we only have so much time in the practice day and we have spent that heavily on offense and defense to the detriment of special teams, I would agree. Hell it took four games for the offense to start clicking so I can understand the reps deficit in ST.
There really isn't anything unique about ST. It is one of two things. They aren't being coached well/getting reps or lack of talent/speed. Most of the errors have been mental, and that goes directly to coaching/lack of reps. I will say, at least some of the problem was addressed by simply fair catching all kickoffs (coaching) and Dibbert kicking the ball out of the end zone (talent).
Posted on 10/25/22 at 6:58 pm to FIVEON
Simple kick off fix. Kick it through the endzone.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 7:42 pm to FIVEON
Hot take. And how much of his salary are you paying
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:31 pm to I20goon
quote:
I know of several, but not ST's. My point would be that whomever they are, and yes there are very likely several on staff, they are not effective. What I'm suggesting is a ST coach who is not a coach in name. Polian can be the ST Coach "in name only". It does pose an issue at practices (and of course games) but there are some loopholes that can be exploited.
I agree that analysts should play a significant role in the running of special teams. I’m just not convinced that isn’t already the case. As to whether or not they are effective, the team has not played well to start the season, but that does not necessarily mean the ST staff is incompetent. ND special teams were decent-to-pretty good the last three seasons under Polian and Kelly. I would consider that a better indicator of their capabilities than a partial season during a rebuild.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:59 pm to FIVEON
quote:
Not if the special teams is bad enough to lead to losses.
This is false and ST maybe cost 1 game, the opener, the biggest blunders were dropped punts, which is not a coaching issue, sorry. There haven’t been any blocked kicks since so if there was a “coaching” issue it has been corrected.
quote:
The #1 item in recruiting (besides NIL money if your school/boosters can afford it) is winning.
Also not entirely true, especially in this case. multiple great classes have been signed after sub par seasons, just at LSU off the top of my head 2001, 2009, 2017 were all epic classes signed after lesser seasons. 2001 and 2017 and this is the key part, we’re early on a coaches tenure. Now if you start winning over time that certainly helps and if the program craters that would hurt recruiting. But I defy you to offer me an example of a team that went completely in the tank because of bad special teams and bad special teams alone.
quote:
When special teams cost us wins (which it has and may do again), it immediately hurts recruiting.
This is just patently false. Recruiting does not hinge on weekly game results. It’s about the big picture and clearly The overall direction of the program is headed in the right direction.
quote:
something tells me losing our ST coordinator in the offseason would not affect much on the trail.
This is also misleading. Polian value is in recruiting so losing him would hurt regardless of what position he coaches. Now he’s not the only good recruiter/talent evaluator in the world but getting rid of him because of bad ST play in one season is extremely short sighted
This post was edited on 10/25/22 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:05 pm to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
2021- #41
2020- #28
2019- #28
2018- #61
2 of those years ND went to the playoff, 1 they were #5 and the other they were 11-2 ranked in the top 15.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:34 pm to lsufb1912
quote:
A penalty on the opening kickoff and a missed field goal.
quote:
How can a ST coach prevent either of these 2 things from happening?
I think blaming a missed FG on the special teams coordinator is silly (assuming it’s just a matter of the kicker missing, which it was).
That being said, being offsides on a kickoff is 100% something he can prevent as a coach. I thought it was a bad look as well - not the end of the world, but not what you want to see on the opening kickoff after weeks of constant miscues on special teams.
The reality is that OP is right. Our special teams have been abysmal. There’s not a lot of sugar coating it. They’ve been better the past two weeks but frick, was there anywhere to go but up? We seem to be cleaning up mistakes but it’s frustrating because many of these things should be cleaned up before they burn you on the field.
At the same time, OP is wrong in the sense that Polian is not “just” the STC as others have pointed out. He’s the recruiting coordinator. Like many recruiting coordinators, he has been given an on field role where he can theoretically do the least damage - it’s usually special teams or tight ends. We’ve just been spoiled in a way by having a true special teams coordinator in McMahon (and a few of the best specialists in LSU history) over the past few years. But that’s certainly not the norm.
I fully expect him to be back next year, and I can only hope that between added player experience and possibly additional analyst/GA help we can avoid some of the issues we’ve had this year. Based on how well we plugged the holes left in the roster last year, I’d say Polian is doing his real job just fine.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:40 pm to FIVEON
quote:
And before we anoint Brain Polian as a great recruiter, his current 247 recruiting ranking is 229th.
You are aware he is the recruiting coordinator for the team correct? His job goes way beyond just being a primary recruiter for various athletes (the thing 247 recruiter rankings capture). It’s about evaluation, roster management, assigning staff members to various recruits, etc.
Throwing out his 247 recruiter ranking like that is showing quite a bit of ignorance regarding his actual role.
Posted on 10/26/22 at 8:48 am to lostinbr
quote:
Our special teams have been abysmal.
This is grossly over stated because of the first game where we had 2 muffed punts and 2 blocked kicks. It looks bad and since we lost becomes a lightning Rod and any mistakes or bad plays after get a tad over blown. Especially on the opening kick vs Tennessee (drops are not coaching) and Ole Miss off sides just a bone head play but ultimately relatively harmless. All those plays count and overall ST play has been bad but we didn’t lose to Tennessee just because of ST. So maybe it cost 1 game, the opener in a season most optimistic picks had us as at best 8-4. The way 2023 recruiting is going, it’s safe to say Polian is doing is most important job function quite well.
This post was edited on 10/26/22 at 10:08 am
Posted on 10/26/22 at 5:39 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
This is grossly over stated because of the first game where we had 2 muffed punts and 2 blocked kicks. It looks bad and since we lost becomes a lightning Rod and any mistakes or bad plays after get a tad over blown.
Let me preface this by saying, first, that I am not one of the posters calling for Polian to be fired.
That being said, the special teams play absolutely has been abysmal.
FSU:
- Two muffed punts.
- One blocked FG and one blocked PAT, both due to allowing a free rusher.
Mississippi State:
- Fielded a punt at the 5 yard line and got tackled at the 3.
- Jumped on another punt that was rolling, fumbled it, but luckily recovered. (Both punt return plays could have been game changing.)
- Allowed two long punt returns that gave MSU the ball at the 50 yard line.
- Allowed a 37 yard kickoff return.
- Allowed another 88 yard kickoff return that luckily got called back for a hold away from the play.
- Kicked off out of bounds.
New Mexico:
- Kicked off out of bounds.
Tennessee:
- Muffed opening kickoff.
- Then we allowed a 58 yard punt return after our first possession.
Florida:
- Allowed a 47 yard return on the opening kickoff.
- Muffed a punt.
Ole Miss:
- Offsides on opening kickoff.
We have muffed 5 punts/kicks in 8 games. We have allowed 3 punt returns >20 yards (T-#116 in FBS / T-#11 in SEC) and 2 kick returns >20 yards (T-#74 in FBS / #10 in SEC).
quote:
Especially on the opening kick vs Tennessee (drops are not coaching)
I would normally agree that drops are not coaching, but when you have 5 muffs in 8 games you have to start wondering whether it’s an issue of practice reps.
Further, even if drops aren’t coaching, scrambling to get into position on a kick return is absolutely coaching. Bech was running to switch sides on that muff in the Tennessee opener.
quote:
and Ole Miss off sides just a bone head play but ultimately relatively harmless
That offsides in and of itself was not a big deal. It’s the accumulation of special teams mistakes.
quote:
we didn’t lose to Tennessee just because of ST
I don’t think we necessarily “lost because of” special teams. But Tennessee took a 10-0 lead immediately on the back of two major special teams frickups. If we don’t have the muffed kickoff and the long punt return, maybe LSU scores first. Maybe we don’t need to go for it on 4th down. It’s impossible to say in hindsight, but it’s not terribly difficult to imagine the game being different if we didn’t spot them 10 points on special teams in the first 4 minutes.
quote:
So maybe it cost 1 game, the opener
I don’t think this is a “maybe.”
quote:
The way 2023 recruiting is going, it’s safe to say Polian is doing is most important job function quite well.
This I can agree with. He is doing his most important job well.
And I’m not discounting the impact that the numbers might be having on ST play. When you have a lot of starters on ST, I can see how that might make a difference in terms of both mental focus and practice reps. On top of that everyone is learning new schemes on offense and defense, which might also affect the amount of time they’re able to spend on special teams in practice.
All I’m saying is.. call a spade a spade.
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