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Started By
Message
re: BAMA vs. Adams
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:10 pm to TigerBandMan
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:10 pm to TigerBandMan
quote:Once?
How many times did Adams draw flags for us with his "King James" flops in key drives?
0
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:32 pm to Hiyoka
quote:
After the flag though, it looked like Miles was yelling at Vadal immediately instead of raising holy hell that there wasn't an offsetting.
Honestly...so was I. I assumed, wrongly, that Vadal MUST have done something far beyond everyone else in that scrum than what I could see from my seats right above them on the goal line in the EUD. I was pissed that he must have lost his cool and cost LSU a legit shot at a TD.
Turns out, I was wrong. Not only was he not the instigator, he was not even the player on either team who was the most aggressive.
It was the one play of the game (outside of the several catches that were either ruled a catch or not a catch) that I wanted to see when I got home that night on the recording. As low as I felt after leaving that game, I felt even worse when I saw what actually transpired on the play and how it was called. Because I knew that EVEN IF the SEC offices did what they almost NEVER do and came out and said it should have been offsetting, what the frick good does that do days after the game? And even if they do that, to whom are you going to complain? The BAMA grad at the head of the officials?
I realize I've gone on about this for a bit. I'd like this think that my post history, for anyone that cares about such things, shows I'm not some reactionary fan. I don't tend to get too down or too high about these things. the one thing I will lose my shite over though is how LSU (and honestly much of the rest of the conference) gets reamed by several well placed BAMA alumni within the SEC offices. And while I'm sensitive to complaints by some that pointing this stuff out can look whiny, I simply have no ficks to give about that any more. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Our system is broken. so long as the SEC office declares that the only rule for an official is that he can not officiate a game that involves his own alma mater while at the same time having an alumnus of a member university over seeing officiating, no one in the conference ought to have anything other than skepticism in regards to getting a fair shake.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:35 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:I actually thought they were doing this since their discussion took so long. I was surprised when he called the LSU penalty and that was that.
or call it offsetting.
quote:I agree with you. Also puzzling is two penalties (different plays) called vs Bama, Saban goes ballistic on the ref, both flags get waived off. Don't think I've ever seen that before.
GeauxTigerTM
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:45 pm to The Mick
I watched the replay on SEC Network last night waiting to see what happened with that play. They went to a commercial and came back with LSU on the 21 yard line.... conveniently skipping the whole thing. Wow....
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:48 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
the issue is that once the flag was thrown and the officials came together for about 45 seconds as Jennings stood near them pleading the case, at no point did any other official on the field step up and suggest that considering they had allowed 5-7 seconds of pushing and shoving by both teams PRIOR to Vadal's shove that MAYBE they either wave that or call it offsetting.
I've been citing the Jamal flops , but you make a very good point about this.
I still think the game plays out exactly the same. We run it between the tackles two more times for zero yards, then kick a field goal.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:53 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
quote:
After the flag though, it looked like Miles was yelling at Vadal immediately instead of raising holy hell that there wasn't an offsetting.
Honestly...so was I. I assumed, wrongly, that Vadal MUST have done something far beyond everyone else in that scrum than what I could see from my seats right above them on the goal line in the EUD.
To be fair - when I saw the flag I wasn't worried at all because I knew it had to be offsetting in that situation. When they called it on us I was sure that Vadal must have had to have done something really bad as well. When I tried to watch the SEC Network replay...they skipped it completely and no ESPN talking heads made a big deal out of it (but they cover the ND-FSU pick play call for days).
The thing is we are just fans so i'll excuse us - our $5,000,000/year HC not so much.
The irony is that you can read his lips telling Vadal to "be smart"...if only the guy could take his own advice!
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:55 pm to Penrod
quote:
I've been citing the Jamal flops , but you make a very good point about this.
quote:
I still think the game plays out exactly the same. We run it between the tackles two more times for zero yards, then kick a field goal.
It may very well have. Just like in 2009 if Peterson gets that call as a pick, it may not have made a difference.
But god damn...wouldn't you have liked to have found out? Thinking back to the moment LSU came onto the field after the fumble recovery, I'm not sure there was anyone on the field or in the stands that would have agreed with you. I think most assumed that LSU, who had run it down BAMA's throat much of the night, was going to punch it in there and stab them in the heart.
In the end, though...if what you say had played out, at least it would have felt honest and while I'd have been bummed by the outcome I'd have been ok with it.
I like winning and HATE losing, but I've done both and am ok with them. even good teams lose...sometimes in heartbreaking fashion. But when what you feel was you best opportunity to win is taken away from you not by the other team but by the officiating crew, there's just no way to comfort that feeling.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 12:59 pm to Hiyoka
quote:
The thing is we are just fans so i'll excuse us - our $5,000,000/year HC not so much.
After the fact, sure. But at the time there was literally no additional information Miles had that we did not at that exact moment. And by the time he did, what was he going to do several plays later as the coaches in the box told him we got hosed?
His reaction was the same as most people. He assumed Vadal must have truly earned the flag, and given that, needed t be yelled at for being a fricking moron there and costing LSU a legit shot at the TD.
Once he saw the tape...I'm with you. I'm much more of a hot head than Miles is and I run my mouth there in hopes that my impending fine and reprimand by the AD starts a national dialog about this shite. But that's me.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:00 pm to Penrod
quote:
I still think the game plays out exactly the same. We run it between the tackles two more times for zero yards, then kick a field goal.
100% wrong - the penalty was also basically a free timeout. Without it we could have run the clock down to ~15 seconds and it would have been almost impossible to drive down for a fg without a miracle play.
That call or a miracle was the only thing except for a turnover or missed fg by LSU that would have given Bama a chance to win the game.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:04 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Once he saw the tape...I'm with you. I'm much more of a hot head than Miles is and I run my mouth there in hopes that my impending fine and reprimand by the AD starts a national dialog about this shite. But that's me.
I would have preferred your reaction to his.
That or maybe just asking the refs wtf they are thinking to not call offsetting in that situation and make it clear they better be damn sure that it was one-sided or you were going to raise hell about each and every one of them.
Always plenty of time to yell at your players - only a moment to try and make sure the refs are doing their job properly.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:12 pm to Hiyoka
quote:
Total incompetence (or cheating)
I say cheating. The breaks always tilt to alabama.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:18 pm to Hiyoka
quote:
That or maybe just asking the refs wtf they are thinking to not call offsetting in that situation and make it clear they better be damn sure that it was one-sided or you were going to raise hell about each and every one of them.
I'm asking honestly...how? Do you call timeout to get Tom Ritter over to have him clarify? They clearly did not go over and explain the call. and if you do that and they give some half arse explanation as to why they did what they did, what can LSU really do about it? Raise hell to whom? Head of Officials and decorated BAMA alumnus, Steve Shaw?
quote:
Always plenty of time to yell at your players - only a moment to try and make sure the refs are doing their job properly.
He could have gotten clarification, but he just has no way to get them to do their jobs.
Honestly...literally nothing would have changed regardless of his reaction there. As a fan, and someone who likes to raise hell about things occasionally, I would like Miles to lose his shite and holler and scream every once in a while. But I want that not because I think it will make a difference, but because as a fan I'm helpless to do anything and at least if the HC is mirroring my frustration I feel my anguish has some kind of a voice.
But...unless and until some outside organization steps in and does a top to bottom investigation within the SEC, I just find it hard to believe most of the conference will ever get a fair shake or voice at the table.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:29 pm to TigerBandMan
quote:
How many times did Adams draw flags for us with his "King James" flops in key drives?
totally different
This wasn't out of bounds pushing a guy for no reason.
This was a guy pushing a dude who was pulling on him, in the last 2 minutes of a game.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:41 pm to Hiyoka
quote:
100% wrong - the penalty was also basically a free timeout. Without it we could have run the clock down to ~15 seconds and it would have been almost impossible to drive down for a fg without a miracle play.
No. We took possession at 1:13. Bama had 3 TOs. Used one after each play to include the play with the penalty. They called TO at 1:07. They were getting the ball back with more than :45 seconds regardless since we couldn't get a 1st down.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:51 pm to Sal Minella
quote:
quote:
100% wrong - the penalty was also basically a free timeout. Without it we could have run the clock down to ~15 seconds and it would have been almost impossible to drive down for a fg without a miracle play.
No. We took possession at 1:13. Bama had 3 TOs. Used one after each play to include the play with the penalty. They called TO at 1:07. They were getting the ball back with more than :45 seconds regardless since we couldn't get a 1st down.
You are right...my bad. Thought they only had 2 timeouts.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:52 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
The issue is not with Vadal Alexander or the guy who pulled his leg and then flopped when rightfully shoved. It's not even with the official who threw the flag, because giving him the benefit of the doubt he may very well have only seen Alexander's shove because from his angle he could not have seen him being pulled. Nope...the issue is that once the flag was thrown and the officials came together for about 45 seconds as Jennings stood near them pleading the case, at no point did any other official on the field step up and suggest that considering they had allowed 5-7 seconds of pushing and shoving by both teams PRIOR to Vadal's shove that MAYBE they either wave that or call it offsetting. The fact that none of them seemed to see any of the stuff that preceded the Alexander shove (or did but did not bother to speak up) is what's troubling.
im sure ill get insta banned, but you guys are forgetting one thing. there was lots of mutual shoving, but alexander is the only one shoving anybody after the whistle. it was another example of the refs letting the piles go on to long, but all the shoving was still technically during the play. Alexander shoves well after the play, and even if the ref saw 86 tugging gently on his leg, that is not enough provocation to justify the late shove and subsquent kneeing of ivory in the head. 86 is just doing what happens in almost every pileup, trying to free his teammate that is trapped underneath alexander (who is not moving off like he should). What alexander did gets called 100% of the time pretty much. The refs were wrong, but only in continuing to let the piles go so long.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:52 pm to TigerBandMan
You're missing the point I believe. No one's denying that the 'Bama player was legitimately touched illegally after the play. However, he initiated the touching and in that situation you either ignore it, like Ritter was doing, or you call both parties to get their attention.
Adams was actually touched illegally without making first contact, flopping notwithstanding.
Adams was actually touched illegally without making first contact, flopping notwithstanding.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:53 pm to GeauxTigerTM
man, we got screwed... 
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:02 pm to narddogg81
quote:
What alexander did gets called 100% of the time pretty much. The refs were wrong, but only in continuing to let the piles go so long.
Not true at all. And the right thing to do is call both down in that situation if you pull the flag, 100% of the time.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:03 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:This is the first time I have actually seen that video.....how can the back judge after seeing all the pushing and shoving going on between the 2 teams isolate 1 LSU player in that sequence?
My point to this is that I get that it's become a cliche that the last guy is always the only flagged...but this wasn't a two person deal. both teams, for nearly 5 seconds of whistle blowing were shoving. there was no reason to single out Alexander without him having dome something above and beyond everyone else. and given BAMA's Reed had already gotten away with a shiv to Pocic's grill on the play, Alexander ought to have had to go pretty damn far to draw that flag at that point.
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