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re: Amazingly, American Football is not in Europe... why?

Posted on 5/6/20 at 4:12 pm to
Posted by HippieTiger
Boulder, CO
Member since Oct 2015
2197 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 4:12 pm to
American football is surprisingly slow paced (the ball is actually in motion like 10-15 minutes) and dominated by commercial breaks. A 3-4 hour game and the ball is in play maybe 15 minutes. It made me appreciate soccer more after the last couple world cups.

I watched the championship game against Clemson in Japan with some forgeingers and explaining it all as the game went on made it seem ridiculous even to me having grown up on it.
This post was edited on 5/6/20 at 4:13 pm
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1621 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

Wait why???



Because game planning and scheming would prevent the same teams from winning every single year in football.

Talent is much more of a determining factor in football. There was nothing any team could really do to slow down LSU this year. They couldn't do anything schematically to keep LSU from being able to take advantage of personnel mismatches. Every year in the NCAA basketball tournament you see #1 seeds getting knocked out by a bunch of scrubs that game planned specific players out of the game.

ETA: There was a period in time when the triple option totally dominated football. Nebraska would basically run the same play over and over again. Teams knew what was coming, but they still couldn't stop it.

Nebraska wasn't out scheming teams, they were overwhelming them with talent.
This post was edited on 5/6/20 at 4:21 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

What you describing seems more akin to basketball


Somewhat. The pressing systems are akin to basketball, but you have a massive field and only 10 outfield players. No team in the world can press for 90 minutes.

quote:

seems like too many variables to formulate a competent strategy to defend... wouldn’t the best strategy be “see ball get ball”???


There are variables to consider, and I'll get to that in a second. But with the ability of top level soccer players, asking them to chase the ball is almost assuring them a loss. It isn't easy to win possession consistently, because the ball can move in any direction.

Thus you need a structure and a way of organizing the field. A consistent defensive approach limits the amount of variables, and thus you can only focus on certain things. Teams are structured in a variety of ways. You can set up so that you are directly occupying passing lanes, which forces opposing players to hold the ball to create new passing angles, which is when you press. You can set up so that you press every player except for the weakest on the ball. You can set up so you concede wide areas, forcing teams to play lower-percentage passes into the box. You can set up a pressing system where you get the offense moving the ball quickly around the back, but so quick they miss downfield opportunities, a system called a false press. You can set your team so that your wingers remain high and wide, which limits the movement of the opposing wing back.

Each decision with regard to formation creates another problem on the field. A 3 man back line will lead to a numerical disadvantage somewhere else. A 2-man midfield can easily be played around. A 4-man midfield set up as a diamond can get too narrow, relying too much on width from defenders. All those decisions with regard to formation and spacing create possible issues elsewhere. Like in American football, you want to avoid a 1 v 1 situation in wide areas.

Two teams can set up in the same relative formation, such as a 4-2-3-1, and employ it completely differently. A team may feel they had an advantage somewhere between two individual players, and the team shape attempts to accent that advantage.

So while all teams want to win the ball quickly, the best way to do that is to drill a defensive shape so players know what to do in each of the likely situations they'll see in a game. It isn't different from the purpose of practice in American football, or the purpose of practice in sports generally, which is to expose players to possibly unfamiliar situations so they know how to react appropriately.

None of it is improvised though. The game, just like football, limits itself based on who you play. Some of the approaches may be more philosophical (as in this is the way we always play and it is up to the opposition to stop us) but the modern game is as analytic as any other modern sport.

This post was edited on 5/6/20 at 4:15 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

if football was truly more strategically complex than other 


It is perfectly okay to say both games are complex too. Because the modern versions of both are exactly that.
Posted by lsu saints fan
Woolooloo
Member since Jan 2007
300 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 6:20 pm to
quote:

Talent is much more of a determining factor in football. There was nothing any team could really do to slow down LSU this year. 



Holy shite dude using LSU as an example is fricking retarded.

LSU had always had talent. LSU is usually at the top for most players in the NFL yet we never sniffed the playoffs.

It wasnt until they brought in a Wonderboy playmaker and started outscheming teams that LSU took the next step



Also comparing college football to professional soccer is dog brains shite

How many years straight has Bayern Munich won the bundealiga?


Posted by Nephropidae
Brentwood
Member since Nov 2018
2773 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 6:37 pm to
quote:

That's like saying all football is to tackle the other guy and bring the ball to the opposite end of the field.

Surely, you're not that ignorant.


Most 4-5 year olds can completely grasp and play soccer at its core and play the game to its fullest. That's really all you need to know.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
23553 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 6:56 pm to
American football is complicated and requires a lot of people. And let's not forget, a lot of specialized people. I think the Europeans find it interesting, but a bit confusing.

I will state, I read that back in the day, the Soviet Red Army hockey team took in an NFL game while touring North America (think it was a Vikings game in the Metrodome). I understand that they came away impressed with the "man's sport" they watched.

Also remember watching Joe Montana go to Australia shortly after retiring, and he participated with an Australian Rules football team some. Remember, Joe was an average sized QB; he was the biggest guy on the field with the Aussies.
Posted by denvertiger
Golden
Member since Feb 2007
4553 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 7:50 pm to
quote:

Most 4-5 year olds can completely grasp and play soccer at its core and play the game to its fullest. That's really all you need to know.


Watching young kids play soccer is like watching young kids play football. Everyone runs to the ball with no regard for or feel of the game. Your premise is bullshite. And this is coming from a guy who doesn't particularly care for soccer.
Posted by Nephropidae
Brentwood
Member since Nov 2018
2773 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 9:39 pm to
quote:

Watching young kids play soccer is like watching young kids play football. Everyone runs to the ball with no regard for or feel of the game. Your premise is bull shite. And this is coming from a guy who doesn't particularly care for soccer.
I don't particularly care about soccer, either. But coaching children to play soccer vs. coaching chilredn to play football is completely different. Soccer is worlds easier for kids to understand. It's just a simpler game at its core.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 10:07 pm to
quote:

Most 4-5 year olds can completely grasp and play soccer at its core and play the game to its fullest. That's really all you need to know.
Man, I'm not even much of a soccer fan, but that's just retarded.

5 year olds play soccer like a bunch of honey bees chasing a pot of honey.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 10:15 pm to
quote:

I don't particularly care about soccer, either. But coaching children to play soccer vs. coaching chilredn to play football is completely different. Soccer is worlds easier for kids to understand. It's just a simpler game at its core.
I've coached both and yeah, it's easier to coach soccer at that age, but that's only because you can basically get away with NOT coaching and just let them run around the field chasing the ball. It's not even really soccer at that point.

At that age, you still have to teach kids to at least line up legally, snap the ball, don't jump offsides etc in football.

But just because you can dumb down soccer further than you can football doesn't mean true soccer is also dumbed down.

I coach 12U and 14U soccer and by that age, Soccer is easily as complex to teach and execute well as football is. In fact, because it's less formal, it's almost MORE difficult to coach.

If you line up two 14U teams of dead equal talent and only one of them plays with discipline, that team is liable to win 8-0. Because there's no pauses to regroup, it's VERY easy for a team to find itself grossly out of position, to have defenders who have totally vacated shape, to have your attack go to hell because your wings didn't recover etc etc etc.

Meanwhile, when I've coached 14 years olds in football, I've never had occasion where when at the snap of the ball, I discover two of my defensive players are 14 yards offsides and completely unable to defend the "attack" of the offense...…..or, had an offense snap the ball on the 40 only to realize that two of my WRs were on our own 15.
Posted by ImayGoLesMiles
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Feb 2015
13307 posts
Posted on 5/6/20 at 10:53 pm to
Bc they're soccer figs over there.
Posted by Swampcat
Member since Dec 2003
12713 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 7:24 pm to
Soccer
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
61452 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 8:39 pm to
quote:

American football is not in Europe, Asia, South America, etc, etc. Of all the sports out there, the fact that American football has not taken off around the world is amazing to me.
It shouldn't be, it is a terrible spectator sport. It takes 4 hours to play the damn game, and the officials can just arbitrarily decide to take over a game.

Soccer is a much better sport to watch. The rest of the world has it right.

That said, I hate soccer and love football, but I understand the differences.
Posted by Boo Krewe
Member since Apr 2015
9810 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 8:53 pm to
some of the interntional workers at disney wanted to watch american football. if they played a game of flag, and were taken to tailgate SEC school ( Sec can be racist), theyd enjoy football
Posted by go ta hell ole miss
Member since Jan 2007
14682 posts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 9:42 pm to
quote:

Rugby is ok, but soccer is for girls and those who fall down and play hurt.


I know the most popular sport in the world is really going to struggle with not having you as a fan because you think it is for girls. You’d probably much prefer to watch sweaty men in very tight pants bending over at the beginning of a play, pushing against each other, chasing one another, grabbing and wrestling another man to the ground while others pile on top to end a play. That’s definitely a sport for men to enjoy.
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