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Message
re: Why Saban Outrecruits Everyone: Pulled an offer on a kid yesterday
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:17 pm to The312
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:17 pm to The312
Saban is so well respected by the Patriots, that they only drafted one of his players after he got to Bama.
And that was a 7th round pick.
Oh, and the Bama that is putting so many 1st rounders in the NFL this year...that will be LSU's defense next year.
And that was a 7th round pick.
Oh, and the Bama that is putting so many 1st rounders in the NFL this year...that will be LSU's defense next year.
0
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:18 pm to The312
quote:
Third, your analysis was flawed because "the facts" failed to account for Green, Hill, Alexander, and Gay, amongst others, all of whom played under Bellicheck coming out of college.
Adding guys who aren't on the roster doest help your case as much as you think. You can compile lists for other coaches who had a bunch of guys play for any coach, not just bellicheck, and skew the same argument. Bill has been coaching a while...
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:19 pm to AlaTiger
Just heard the story on Sports Hangover. I get why Saban did it, but that is still a dick move. Then apparently Nicky got pissy when asked about it. What a prince of a guy.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:21 pm to Newbomb Turk
Damn... Newbomb is owning your arse right now. Just stop 
This post was edited on 2/2/12 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:22 pm to Newbomb Turk
quote:
Randall Gay wasn't even drafted.
Eric Alexander wasn't even drafted and was a spot player at best.
Since we're talking recruiting, Jarvis Green was a Dinardo recruit.
So, you're left with Marquis Hill as your "big" example. A second round pick who played in nine games over two years?
Yeah, stick to third grade. One day you might learn something.
Did you entirely miss the point of my original post? In case you did, the point is that the Patriots preferred Saban's players because of the way he mentally prepared them to play in the league. The fact that the Patriots took Green, Gay, Alexander, and Hill - all of whom were coached by Saban - supports this position.
This is no secret, as evidenced by the fact that a professional NFL writer - who clearly follows the league much more closely than you do and undoubtedly has far more information about the attitudes of coaches than outsiders - just explicitly SAID that Belicheck prefers Saban coached players. Do you genuinely believe that your incomplete five minute roster evaluation is a better indication of Belicheck's sentiments than the published article of a reputable NFL beat writer who actually knows the man and has spoken to him?
Also, it's been widely reported that Saban and Bellicheck are close. Do a Google search, if you doubt me. Here's a sample article, should you find that too difficult:
LINK
You were simply wrong when you contended that Saban wasn't respected in the NFL. He is, especially by Belicheck. You can just admit your error or go on making quips about third grade. Your choice, I suppose.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:23 pm to Newbomb Turk
quote:
Here's the New England roster --
New England Roster
From my counting, there are 2 players from Bama. One has been in the league for 6 years so he has nothing to do with Saban.
The other is a part-time player drafted at the bottom of the seventh round.
The only LSU players on the roster are Kevin Faulk (before Saban's time here) and Steven Ridley (after Saban's time here).
The moral of the story -- STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR arse.
Okay, this falls in the "boom" category of message boards.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:27 pm to Newbomb Turk
quote:
Newbomb Turk
Don't you know Bellicheck = NFL.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:28 pm to Kingpin
quote:GTFO
Kingpin
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:32 pm to The312
quote:
This is no secret, as evidenced by the fact that a professional NFL writer - who clearly follows the league much more closely than you do and undoubtedly has far more information about the attitudes of coaches than outsiders - just explicitly SAID that Belicheck prefers Saban coached players.
Well, if he said it then it must be true, even though Belichik doesn't actually have any Saban-coached players on his team, save the one guy he drafted in the 7th round.
I mean, it isn't like there aren't dozens of Saban-coached players to choose from. But, Belichik "says" he prefers them but doesn't actually have them on his team. Got it.
By the way, this all came from when Saban was at LSU years ago and the Patriots kept grabbing LSU players. Most of them didn't work out very well or remain long term fixtures and now Belichik DOES NOT have many Saban-coached players on his team.
See a trend?
How many Saban-coached players have really become big stars in the NFL that would not have if they had played for, say Bob Stoops or Jim Tressel or Butch Davis, or, gasp, Les Miles?
I fail to see where anything that Saban does prepares players for the next level any more than what any other top coach does. Of course, Saban TELLS all of his players and recruits that he is the best at it, just like he tells all the Bama fans the same thing. And, everyone eats it up so the best players go there. And, then he yells at them and they think they are getting ready to star in the NFL. But, the truth is, his results are no better than anyone else at anything other than getting the top recruits with his lies, which of course leads to winning championships.
But, it is not because he is a better coach. November 9th proved that as does the performance of his guys in the NFL - good, but no better than any other decent program.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:32 pm to keakdasneak
quote:What circumstances?
From my understanding of what happened Miller was told he could enroll early and then when someone more desirable came along (Kiel) Miller was told to enroll in the fall or pay his own way in spring. While the circumstances are not exactly the same, in terms of my standards of ethics they are only separated by a shade of bullshite. To deny that is only confirmation of your own bias.
Did LSU stand by Miller's scholarship offer? Not the EE but the Freshman year scholarship.
Did Bama stand by Philon's Freshman year scholarship? That's the root of it.
The article in the OP said Philon's Freshman year scholarship was "yanked". If true, that's not at all the same as Miller.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:34 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
Kid had been committed since September and took no other visits. Shows up to school yesterday with an Alabama hat on and goes to sign and is told they have no room for him because 2 other players committed to Alabama yesterday putting them over the limit. So, he bails on the 3 star DLineman for the new guys
I made the same point yesterday on Alabama recruiting board and was crucified. My point was that Saban has garnered much goodwill, but risks squandering it all for a very marginal gain. He already has a national reputation for oversigning and processing players, and this just fuels that fire.
If a kid is injured after he is offered, of course a school can alter the terms of their offer. However, that should be done as soon as the extent of the injury is known.
Here, we kept recruiting DL prospects so that we ended up with too many, so we can't claim the injury was why he got the grayshirt. If Bama had told him that they were changing his offer to a grayshirt due to his injury several months ago, no one could criticize them. When you spring it on the kid at the last minute, you deserve whatever blowback you get. I don't criticize them for the result, I criticize them for how it was handled. Whole situation could have been avoided.
This post was edited on 2/2/12 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:35 pm to The312
quote:
The fact that the Patriots took Green, Gay, Alexander, and Hill - all of whom were coached by Saban - supports this position.
I'm sorry, but no one can be this f'ing ignorant.
Four guys over 11 years -- only 2 of which were even drafted (and one of those wasn't a Saban recruit) -- is your "proof" of how much Belichick loves and prefers to draft Saban's players.
Seriously, son, quit now. Stop making a complete arse of yourself.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:35 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
just explicitly SAID that Belicheck prefers Saban coached players.
Wait, maybe we are interpreting this wrong.
Is it prefers to coach...or play agianst?
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:37 pm to keakdasneak
quote:They're similar because they were both recruits. That's it - that's where it ends, and acknowledging that does not make one biased.
but if you don't consider it similar in terms of pulling the rug out from under a kid due to preference of another kid, it's due to your own bias as far as I'm concerned.
This post was edited on 2/2/12 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:37 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
I fail to see where anything that Saban does prepares players for the next level any more than what any other top coach does. Of course, Saban TELLS all of his players and recruits that he is the best at it, just like he tells all the Bama fans the same thing. And, everyone eats it up so the best players go there. And, then he yells at them and they think they are getting ready to star in the NFL. But, the truth is, his results are no better than anyone else at anything other than getting the top recruits with his lies, which of course leads to winning championships.
But, it is not because he is a better coach. November 9th proved that as does the performance of his guys in the NFL - good, but no better than any other decent program.
It's pretty clear that you aren't willing to review this issue rationally. So be it. If two national championships in three years, several consecutive top three recruiting classes, the stated respect of top NFL coaches, and a projected eight first round draft picks in two years doesn't convince you that Saban is a superior, elite coach, I suspect nothing will.
I don't like him, but anyone rational has to admit Saban is just a great coach.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:40 pm to The312
quote:
It's pretty clear that you aren't willing to review this issue rationally.
Yeah, we know. You did this BIG GOOGLE search and the best you could come up with is a no-name blogger who says it's so. So, of course, mustering up all the intelligence that God gave you, use that as your "proof".
Seriously, son, go back to class. We wouldn't you to get a detention.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:40 pm to The312
quote:
but anyone rational has to admit Saban is just a great coach.
not what was up for debate.
We were proving you wrong on the belichik respect.
Truth is, facts do not support your claim.
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:41 pm to The312
quote:
and a projected eight first round draft picks in two years doesn't convince you that Saban is a superior, elite coach, I suspect nothing will.
Do you REALLY think that these 5* recruits (like Julio Jones) couldn't have gone to one of 20 schools and still have been a first round draft pick?
Really?
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:43 pm to Newbomb Turk
quote:
Four guys over 11 years -- only 2 of which were even drafted (and one of those wasn't a Saban recruit) -- is your "proof" of how much Belichick loves and prefers to draft Saban's players.
Four guys in five years, actually. Those are the players taken from Saban's LSU tenure. If the combination of historical evidence, the widely reported friendship and mentoring relationship, and the explicit statement of a seasoned NFL beat writer with intimate knowledge of the league aren't enough to convince you that Belicheck respects Saban and likes his players, so be it.
quote:
Seriously, son, quit now. Stop making a complete arse of yourself.
Instead of strange internet tough guy statements, why don't you just address the question.
Here, I'll just ask you straight out:
Is Saban respected within the NFL, yes or no?
This post was edited on 2/2/12 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 2/2/12 at 12:50 pm to The312
quote:
Is Saban respected within the NFL, yes or no?
No more so than a dozen other coaches.
For YEARS NFL coaches have called college coaches to ask about kids. This isn't something that Saban has a monopoly over. It's just sound business practice for NFL coaches.
If you "proof" is that Belichik places the occasional call in the offseason to "talk defense" with Saban, you really need some help.
One thing is for sure -- Nick Saban was a total failure in the NFL and clearly doesn't understand what it takes to succeed at the next level. Just because he can recruit 5* "can't miss" recruits, some of whom go on to be first round picks, says virtually nothing about his ability "to coach players up" to NFL standards.
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