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re: Was Coach more successful in recruiting than expected
Posted on 12/26/17 at 11:39 am to nitwit
Posted on 12/26/17 at 11:39 am to nitwit
Who expected person to bring in higher ranked recruiting classes than Miles? His last 4 classes averaged number 4 in the rankings. But his classes notoriously had holes and didn't always address team needs. We will be lucky if Orgeron can recruit on the same level as Miles from a rankings perspective. But where I think many of us feel we should improve is addressing needs and identifying talent and recruiting better on the lines.
Name the last elite RB Miles landed from outside the state of Louisiana. Then look at the 2018 running back class and tell me which of those elite guys Orgeron realistically should have gotten.
quote:
Yes, more linemen, but at the expense of fewer elite RB's and QB's.
Name the last elite RB Miles landed from outside the state of Louisiana. Then look at the 2018 running back class and tell me which of those elite guys Orgeron realistically should have gotten.
1
Posted on 12/26/17 at 11:40 am to jcole4lsu
Everyone keeps touting the class at UGA. Has anyone looked at it closely? The state of Georgia is freaking loaded this year. Most of their 5 star kids are from Georgia.
We all would love that class, but the state of Louisiana, while good for talent, will never produce anything close to that!
We all would love that class, but the state of Louisiana, while good for talent, will never produce anything close to that!
Posted on 12/26/17 at 11:42 am to whitefoot
quote:
Who expected person to bring in higher ranked recruiting classes than Miles?
Being a top notch recruiter was literally part of the sell job for hiring O.
quote:
Then look at the 2018 running back class and tell me which of those elite guys Orgeron realistically should have gotten.
Had he done his job and got Akers or Ettiene in 2017, it wouldn't be a problem.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 11:52 am to jcole4lsu
quote:
Being a top notch recruiter was literally part of the sell job for hiring O.
Right. I agree. Miles was also a top notch recruiter. Recruiting should not drop off with Orgeron. But that may or may not be reflected in the class rankings every year. I'm fine with that as long as the talent shows on the field in the fall.
quote:
Had he done his job and got Akers or Ettiene in 2017, it wouldn't be a problem.
No doubt. Sucks that we missed in those guys.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:02 pm to whitefoot
Yes, it sucks and there's a HC of a program responsible for that suckage.
AND, he failed to recruit an elite RB again this year, despite the immediate playing time one could enjoy here with Guice leaving.
AND he failed to sign any QB's besides the lack of numbers there on our roster.
The losses of Wilson, Akers, Etienne (if he was in play)last year hurt this year.
This is not an elite recruiting performance by our new HC.
AND, he failed to recruit an elite RB again this year, despite the immediate playing time one could enjoy here with Guice leaving.
AND he failed to sign any QB's besides the lack of numbers there on our roster.
The losses of Wilson, Akers, Etienne (if he was in play)last year hurt this year.
This is not an elite recruiting performance by our new HC.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:12 pm to nitwit
quote:
Yes, it sucks and there's a HC of a program responsible for that suckage.
No leniency for losing out on those guys in a transition year?
quote:
AND, he failed to recruit an elite RB again this year, despite the immediate playing time one could enjoy here with Guice leaving.
Who, specifically, would qualify as an elite RB in this year's class that we should have gotten? The head coach can't make elite running backs appear out of thin air.
quote:
The losses of Wilson, Akers, Etienne (if he was in play)last year hurt this year
Buggs was probably the biggest loss. But he did end up landing some great guys at the end to help soften the blow.
quote:
This is not an elite recruiting performance by our new HC.
This remains to be seen. We have to see how these guys look in spring and fall with pads on.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:13 pm to Harv65
Who cares what Miles classes were ranked. Apparently he severely underachieved with the talent he brought in. Again, I'll take a staff who can develop talent any day. We have the coaches on both sides of the ball who can develop these kids. Looks like Russell Gage did a pretty damn good job being what a three star.
This post was edited on 12/26/17 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:19 pm to phantom70815
Well the lineman we got were heavily recruited by a lot of p5 programs. Lots of Sec talent across the lines imo.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:25 pm to jcole4lsu
quote:
Had he done his job and got Akers or Ettiene in 2017, it wouldn't be a problem.
Sure, both are considered misses but nobody sees anything other the end result of not getting both. All of the critics have really no insight to what the recruiting strategy was prior to Miles leaving and how it changed after he left. It was widely known and that Akers was O's focus and Ettiene was, by all indications, getting over looked by Les and Cam. You shouldn't hang all that on O.
If everyone will recall recruiting in-home did not take off until O was named HC in December. O elected to wait until a HC was named so as to not waste these visits. It probably hurt to some degree but it was done in attempt to help once a decision was made but and probably helped more than it hurt. O has added what appears to be quality RB depth, if not a starter, in this cycle.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:26 pm to Pahnew
quote:
The Texas rankings is a prime example. WR's, DB's have the higher star ratings.
I agree that while Texas has a much better class than previous years...it has holes. I also believe that Texas' recruiting is hurting aTm much more than LSU. As long as we keep (Cherry) picking a few of the elite kids from Tejas & Florida, LSU will be fine.
The playoff system has changed CFB and coaches that wan't to compete for NC's (consistently) must adopt new strategies. You have to win 2 games against quality opponents and sometimes with completely different schemes. You have to have the DEPTH to manage around injuries during the year. Recruiting players who will contribute in some way, within 3 years, is more critical today than ever. Player evaluations are more critical than ever and I'm mostly talking about character. Think about the negative impact on any roster when a player leaves after Yr1 or Yr2. Think about the negative impact on a roster when a kid never sees the field. Would the team have been better served by signing a 3* player with the upside to contribute within a few years?
Every team has to manage around 85/25 and it's not easy. Injuries and defections are a common problem for every team. 4-5* kids are more likely to transfer if they don't play immediately. It starts at a young age, when the kids look up to their parents for guidance. Unfortunately, (today) most kids are being taught that it's easier to quit/ find a new team if you can't outplay or outwork your competition. I've seen it firsthand and it doesn't stop when the kids are in high-school. Most coaches will overlook those issues because they are too focussed on the talent and the pressure from the part of a fanbase that expects all 4-5* players. That's probably the same people who teach their kids to quit.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:27 pm to Harv65
We are in much better shape than Texas as far as recruiting. Texas signed a bunch of DB's which made their ranking high. I would not trade what Texas just signed with LSU's current roster. Texas did not sign one QB or RB as well. We filled our needs period. Only thing lacking, as usual, is a hot shot QB.
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:31 pm to Bayoufightingtiger
quote:
Texas did not sign one QB or RB as well
Didn't Texas sign Cam Rising?
Posted on 12/26/17 at 12:56 pm to nitwit
quote:
Yes, it sucks and there's a HC of a program responsible for that suckage.
Come on man! He rallied and pulled together a pretty good class at the end of the cycle considering a coaching change. He brought some decent transfers, as well. This class will be a foundation moving forward with the line depth and signature play makers that will be added. This class is 2 months away from being complete but he just added 20 early signatures. That is strong!
quote:
AND, he failed to recruit an elite RB again this year, despite the immediate playing time one could enjoy here with Guice leaving.
Elite? How many of those are out there? Expectations need to be somewhat realistic. He added 2 RBs that will compete and play. One of which is an are early enrollee. This class may not be done.
quote:
AND he failed to sign any QB's besides the lack of numbers there on our roster.
He added 2 QBs in the last cycle. One got QB2 snaps and the other redshirted. I agree that a top-flight QB is a need...a must even. Getting Rogers away from TCU proved to be too hard to overcome. The kid is coming of a major injury this year and TCU worked that angle to their benefit and I believe LSU recruited him about as hard as you can but it wasn't enough. Again, this class isn't over but how many QBs are in this class that are better than MB and LN?
quote:
The losses of Wilson, Akers, Etienne (if he was in play)last year hurt this year.
This is not an elite recruiting performance by our new HC.
I am sorry that you have a tough time understanding that LSU will not get every recruit that is on their board or everyone that YOU think fits their needs. I'm sorry that you see everything as half-empty and would rather be negative during this, what should be, positive time of the year.
quote:I believe that says it all. Good luck to you.
nitwit
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:01 pm to whitefoot
I saw a video recently where Orgeron said they could have signed more quality players that wanted to commit, but now because of this hard cap BS they have to sign the players they really need. He said that they would be doing just that, a shame to because I feel that they could have signed Surtain, Joseph, Joiner, and at WR it's either Chase or Keys III, Beal and Watkins, that's 27. But I don't see that happening now with the hard cap, they also could have gotten DE Mike Williams or DE Fox from the way he was talking.
This post was edited on 12/26/17 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:10 pm to Harv65
Yes, it's more successful than expected to anyone who understood that this year's class in Louisiana was not highly ranked. Class ranking doesn't mean shite if you don't address your needs. Plus, LSU has a long history of turning 3-start players like Tyson Jackson, Chevis Jackson, Jacob Hester, Brandon LaFell, Trindon Holliday, Kelvin Sheppard, Perry Riley, Stevan Ridley, Delvin Breaux, Lavar Edwards, Mo Claiborne, Bennie Logan, Alfred Blue, Jalen Collins, Trai Turner, Terrence Magee, Ronald Martin, Deion Jones, Jalen Mills, Lewis Neal, Duke Riley into NFL players. You can add Greedy Williams (who benched 5-star CB Kevin Toliver and played a role in sending 5-star Savion Smith packing to JUCO) and DJ Chark to this list soon.
1) Needs.
2) Fit.
3) Talent.
In that order...
1) Needs.
2) Fit.
3) Talent.
In that order...
Posted on 12/26/17 at 1:15 pm to tubucoco
The rule change coupled with the new early signing period no doubt changes how they conduct their board. By focusing on players waiting to make their decision in Feb. and missing on them could cause you to undersign a class. By over-signing in Dec. could cause you too miss on available targets late in the game because the numbers aren't there. Sucks but, it is what it is now. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Posted on 12/27/17 at 8:41 am to whitefoot
quote:
Why Texas? Come on. You know why Texas
No I really dont. But I am very curious to see what he has to say about why Texas vs the other schools ahead of LSU.
But he doesnt wade in on substance, he's more of a mouth breather.
This post was edited on 12/27/17 at 8:45 am
Posted on 12/27/17 at 12:15 pm to LosTigres25
quote:
No I really dont
Orgeron will forever be linked to Tom Herman
Posted on 12/27/17 at 4:19 pm to Harv65
No
Posted on 12/27/17 at 4:33 pm to phantom70815
quote:
LSU has gotten their share of them in the past.
This is true, but if you set out to stock up on line talent like we just did:
A- You may have less chance of pulling some high 4s and 5s who want to be THE guy at their position in a class. They know what’s going on.
And...
B- You aren’t going to get all 4s and 5s when you take this many linemen, no matter who you are. There aren’t enough to stock the needs we have with all the competition out there.
Look, this class should be a one time deal. If these guys work out and the depth chart on both fronts gets back on track, then we will see more traditional classes from here on out. This class was a fix for some existing problems that got out of hand.
I just wouldn’t judge the future based on this class. If the stars aren’t interested next year, then you have reason for concern. The lack of a QB is the only real legitimate knock I can see on this class, and that could still be rectified.
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