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re: Thayer Evans Article on LSU and Randle and street agents
Posted on 3/14/11 at 9:58 pm to PeterPan
Posted on 3/14/11 at 9:58 pm to PeterPan
They are reporting now that LSU has paid over 50k to recruiting services, I am not sure but assume that was last year alone. We know it was to at least four or five services and that it looks like most of major schools are doing this...but it really stinks in my book. These 7 on 7 should be banned and so should street agents
2
Posted on 3/14/11 at 10:01 pm to TutHillTiger
doesn't it seem like there simply is no policy on the part of the NCAA when it comes to third parties?
Kids can't have agents but these guys just call themselves something else (advisors etc) and hang around as many promising kids as possible
I think it needs to be cleaned up... but they have to make some rules along the lines of "no student with eligibility remaining may use third party advisors to market or help place them in a school"
seems kinda unenforceable tho... if the kids aren't paying them (the schools are) and there's no reasonable way to prevent someone from giving you advice...
maybe the way they have to approach it is to legislate that schools and boosters may not pay recruiting services, advisors, or other third parties for recruiting information? I'm struggling with the best way to make a rule that makes sense and is enforceable
Kids can't have agents but these guys just call themselves something else (advisors etc) and hang around as many promising kids as possible
I think it needs to be cleaned up... but they have to make some rules along the lines of "no student with eligibility remaining may use third party advisors to market or help place them in a school"
seems kinda unenforceable tho... if the kids aren't paying them (the schools are) and there's no reasonable way to prevent someone from giving you advice...
maybe the way they have to approach it is to legislate that schools and boosters may not pay recruiting services, advisors, or other third parties for recruiting information? I'm struggling with the best way to make a rule that makes sense and is enforceable
Posted on 3/14/11 at 10:20 pm to molsusports
quote:
doesn't it seem like there simply is no policy on the part of the NCAA when it comes to third parties?
there really aren't. the only real "grab" is if they can declare the handlers are boosters
the NCAA is working on rules, but i don't see how they enforce them other than banning schools from allowing the camps, accepting money from companies who run the camps (which includes NIKE), and paying for any recruiting service
quote:
I'm struggling with the best way to make a rule that makes sense and is enforceable
there really isn't a way
it's why it is the perfect scam
well, other than companies like NIKE signing the kids (essentially) in middle school
Posted on 3/14/11 at 10:28 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
They are reporting now that LSU has paid over 50k to recruiting services
They must mean this year. I have much bigger numbers than that for last year.
Posted on 3/14/11 at 11:05 pm to Stewie Griffin
So you are saying we went all in the past few years?
Pun intended.
Pun intended.
Posted on 3/14/11 at 11:28 pm to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
The Longhorns were hot & heavy in pursuit of Lache and the rumor is a bagman for Lyles approached Texas and very vaguely hinted around about what it would take to get him in Austin. The Horns dropped their pursuit of Lache that instant and Lache started telling recruiting gurus he was no longer interested in Texas. Now, do you think that running back starved Texas dropped their interest for no reason. Also, if the street agent already knows where the kid wants to go, why is Lache expressing interest in multiple schools? Why is Lyles getting paid AFTER kids like Lache sign?
In what world do you live in. UTw had a Temple track coach tell Lache he would take him to UTw to get advice from the UTw track coach so Lache could get better at coming out of the blocks. Lache never got to see the track coach because Mack Brown just happened to bump into Lache while he was wearing his LSU shirt on UTw campus. The Temple coach then drove Lache every day during spring break to UTw so Lache could hang out with UTw football players and coaches. Who payed the coach to take Lache to UTw? Maybe UTw does not need handlers because they use local coaches to do the coaxing for them. So which is worse paying many handlers in cash or paying scouting services on the books. So who was Major calling at Temple to give Lache notes that said "call Major he wants you to call him." Lache showed me the notes and said they (some of the Temple coaches) want him to go to UT"(w) real bad. Why did they care if he went to UTw? All this during the spring of Lache's 10th grade year. I thought no college coach can initiate contact before September 1st unless the kid initiates the meeting and/or calls. What does the NCAA say about orchestrated first contact? This was a set up and Lache had no idea what was going on at the time. Lache had already decided UTw would be the backup choice unless USCw came a calling. All this happened before Will showed up. So take your UTw pride back to Austin, Texas and stop trying make excuses because Mack hired a QB to coach RBs. This is no rumor it is well documented at the time. As a matter of fact The visit to UTw was only a few days after I released his youtube video on this site.
Posted on 3/14/11 at 11:56 pm to Born to be a Tiger
You Texas guys are funny.Do you really think the NCAA or anyone else really hold what Texas HS coaches say in that much regard?Seriously?Most of those same coaches technically could be classified as boosters of the University of Texas.Many,many coaches in Texas push kids to Texas,pay booster fees to Texas and contribute to the university of Texas financially.That technically is a booster.Just because LSU paid $6000 to a lyles associated service doesn't mean it was illegal.There has to something to prove that money actually exchanged between the 2 parties directly for the services of a player not film and scouting tools.I highly doubt that their is any proof of that.The only way anything comes of this is if someone starts squeling.At that point every major football program in the country is in trouble.I guarantee you that Texas pays scouting services as do every other school in the country.Should they all be punished?If so then college football would cease to exist.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 12:15 am to lsufanva
Yeah, he's an idiot. A butthurt one at that for losing players they "should" have gotten. He hears a rumor and runs with it. You can bet he believes Texas does no wrong.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 12:46 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
Vincent told the Times Picayune LSU paid $6,000 for the JUCO Per State Package which includes game films from California and Kansas Junior Colleges and costs $3,000 per state. Vincent said LSU used 14 different recruiting services last year, ranging from $39.95 to ESPN Insider to $20,000 for National Prep Network
This quote is fact from Vincent of LSU and they used 14 services last year from $39.95 to ESPN Insider to $20,000 for National Prep Network not the $50,000 that is rummored to be the amount.
quote:
TUTHILLTIGER
They are reporting now that LSU has paid over 50k to recruiting services
LINK ]LSU confirms payment to football recruiting service under scrutiny
quote:
Baton Rouge - LSU paid $6,000 to Complete Scouting Services, a college recruiting firm that employs reputed street agent Will Lyles, who is getting scrutiny from NCAA investigators for his relationship with Oregon football players, LSU senior associate athletic director Herb Vincent confirmed Monday.
In a story first reported by FOXsports.com senior writer Thayer Evans, Vincent said the money was paid to Lyles business in December, and was one of several recruitng services LSU used. LSU no longer employs Complete Scouting Services.
Vincent told the Times Picayune LSU paid $6,000 for the JUCO Per State Package which includes game films from California and Kansas Junior Colleges and costs $3,000 per state. Vincent said LSU used 14 different recruiting services last year, ranging from $39.95 to ESPN Insider to $20,000 for National Prep Network.
"It's a normal course of business," Vincent said. He said LSU has not been contacted by the NCAA regarding Lyles.
The NCAA has spoken to 2011 LSU signee Trevon Randle, a linebacker from Clear Springs (Texas) High School, according to Evans' report. A source close to the situation said NCAA investigators have questioned Randle about his contact with Lyles, Randle's Coach, Clint Hartman, and Randle's father, Raymond Edwards.
The report says Lyles accompanied LSU defensive line coach Brick Haley on a visit to Clear Springs last year, and that Hartman asked Lyles to return to the parking lot. The report said Hartman didn't want Lyles around his player and that he called Haley and told him Lyles was never to return to Clear Springs.
Hartman said Haley told him he didn't know Lyles but that he showed up because he had previously helped other LSU coaches in recruiting at Clear Springs.
LSU is the second school to admit to paying Lyles recruiting service. An invoice showed Oregon paid $25,000 to Complete Scouting Services in March of last year. ESPN.com reported two weeks ago that the NCAA is investigating Lyles' relationships with Ducks running back LaMichael James and Lache Seastrunk, a highly recruited running back from Temple, Texas, who signed with Oregon last year.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 7:08 am to CaseyMc2
quote:
it's impossible to prove what payments were made for the services and what payments were mad to the man to sign the kids
Wrong.....it is easy to tell. If the payment was made before the services were utilized, it is a legit recruiting service. If it is paid after a kid signs on signing day.......HUGE red flag.
quote:
I think prostitution is a major crime right? Have fun with that one Drunkenstein
Cleve allegedly sexually harassed a chick. As far as the rumors of him securing prostitutes for players, I've never seen that anywhere but message boards. In all honesty, I'd love to see a link from a legit source if you have it.
quote:
LSU paid $6,000 to Complete Scouting Services, a college recruiting firm that employs reputed street agent Will Lyles, unless Lyles owns and runs the business himself i dont see the problem
Lyles = CSS and e is dirty. When was the bill paid? Legit recruiting services bill you before you get their info. Street agents posing as recruiting services charge you after a certain lid signs. Oregon paid Lyles/CSS 25K AFTER Lache signed. If LSU paid the 6K after signing day.....trouble.
Born to be a Tiger, I couldn't make heads or tails of that rambling post.
quote:
You Texas guys are funny.Do you really think the NCAA or anyone else really hold what Texas HS coaches say in that much regard
Do I think the NCAA will hand out sanctions based purely on the opinions of the coaches? Of course not. However, 2 of my best friends from high school are Texas high school football coaches.......on in the Houston area and one in central Texas, and Lyles is a known $ man. He really is. Either this consensus of Texas high school coaches is part of some elaborate and complex fraud or the guy is dirty. Believe what you want.
quote:
Just because LSU paid $6000 to a lyles associated service doesn't mean it was illegal
If paid before they used his services, like a normal recruiting service, everything is fine. If paid after signing day, in the way Oregon paid him, then there is big trouble.
quote:
You can bet he believes Texas does no wrong.
I was banned from Hornfans.com for insisting that Texas fire its baseball coach when he got a DUI. I stopped paying the Texas-exes when Texas allowed Sergio Kindle back on the team after his texting incident when he drove in to a building when everyone knew he was drunk but he left the scene. Texas isn't flawless and I am objective.
quote:
Vincent told the Times Picayune LSU paid $6,000 for the JUCO Per State Package which includes game films from California and Kansas Junior Colleges and costs $3,000 per state.
To me, this is terrifying for LSU. Why pay a guy who never leaves Texas for JUCO game films from Cali & Kansas?!? Again, if paid ahead of time, fine.......but if this $ was paid after signing day like Oregon....yikes.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 7:08 am to CaseyMc2
quote:
it's impossible to prove what payments were made for the services and what payments were mad to the man to sign the kids
Wrong.....it is easy to tell. If the payment was made before the services were utilized, it is a legit recruiting service. If it is paid after a kid signs on signing day.......HUGE red flag.
quote:
I think prostitution is a major crime right? Have fun with that one Drunkenstein
Cleve allegedly sexually harassed a chick. As far as the rumors of him securing prostitutes for players, I've never seen that anywhere but message boards. In all honesty, I'd love to see a link from a legit source if you have it.
quote:
LSU paid $6,000 to Complete Scouting Services, a college recruiting firm that employs reputed street agent Will Lyles, unless Lyles owns and runs the business himself i dont see the problem
Lyles = CSS and e is dirty. When was the bill paid? Legit recruiting services bill you before you get their info. Street agents posing as recruiting services charge you after a certain lid signs. Oregon paid Lyles/CSS 25K AFTER Lache signed. If LSU paid the 6K after signing day.....trouble.
Born to be a Tiger, I couldn't make heads or tails of that rambling post.
quote:
You Texas guys are funny.Do you really think the NCAA or anyone else really hold what Texas HS coaches say in that much regard
Do I think the NCAA will hand out sanctions based purely on the opinions of the coaches? Of course not. However, 2 of my best friends from high school are Texas high school football coaches.......on in the Houston area and one in central Texas, and Lyles is a known $ man. He really is. Either this consensus of Texas high school coaches is part of some elaborate and complex fraud or the guy is dirty. Believe what you want.
quote:
Just because LSU paid $6000 to a lyles associated service doesn't mean it was illegal
If paid before they used his services, like a normal recruiting service, everything is fine. If paid after signing day, in the way Oregon paid him, then there is big trouble.
quote:
You can bet he believes Texas does no wrong.
I was banned from Hornfans.com for insisting that Texas fire its baseball coach when he got a DUI. I stopped paying the Texas-exes when Texas allowed Sergio Kindle back on the team after his texting incident when he drove in to a building when everyone knew he was drunk but he left the scene. Texas isn't flawless and I am objective.
quote:
Vincent told the Times Picayune LSU paid $6,000 for the JUCO Per State Package which includes game films from California and Kansas Junior Colleges and costs $3,000 per state.
To me, this is terrifying for LSU. Why pay a guy who never leaves Texas for JUCO game films from Cali & Kansas?!? Again, if paid ahead of time, fine.......but if this $ was paid after signing day like Oregon....yikes.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 8:08 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
If the payment was made before the services were utilized, it is a legit recruiting service. If it is paid after a kid signs on signing day.......HUGE red flag.
what if over 20 schools, 10 did it one way, and 10 did it the other?
what if these were payments for services the next recruiting season? prove me to me they weren't
quote:
As far as the rumors of him securing prostitutes for players, I've never seen that anywhere but message boards.
i also didn't see the real story about sergio kindle's drunken car wreck his last year other than message boards. do you really want to go down that road?
also, i've only seen people accuse LSU of any wrongdoing on message boards. the best you have is this story that only alleges wrongdoing if they can mold lyles into a booster (which is not true)
quote:
Lyles = CSS and e is dirty. When was the bill paid? Legit recruiting services bill you before you get their info. Street agents posing as recruiting services charge you after a certain lid signs. Oregon paid Lyles/CSS 25K AFTER Lache signed. If LSU paid the 6K after signing day.....trouble.
please show me the NCAA rule that states schools must pay recruiting services before the service is rendered
quote:
Born to be a Tiger, I couldn't make heads or tails of that rambling post.
he said that UT arranged improper contact prior to senior year and that in TX the HS Coaches are the handlers for UT
quote:
Of course not. However, 2 of my best friends from high school are Texas high school football coaches.......on in the Houston area and one in central Texas, and Lyles is a known $ man. He really is. Either this consensus of Texas high school coaches is part of some elaborate and complex fraud or the guy is dirty.
i don't think anybody claims this guy is dirty
the problem is what rule did it violate? the NCAA doesn't, and cannot, regulate 3rd parties who are involved in the process. also, there is no way to prove he was paid to secure players b/c (1) i doubt schools wrote "bought lache seastrunk" on the memo portion of the check, (2) he provided other services, and (3) all major schools paid him for services. it's impossible to say what he was and wasn't paid for
quote:
Again, if paid ahead of time, fine
please find me that NCAA rule
Posted on 3/15/11 at 8:19 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
If paid before they used his services, like a normal recruiting service, everything is fine. If paid after signing day, in the way Oregon paid him, then there is big trouble.
this isn't the silver bullet you think it is, I did a big project for an SEC athletic department last year and collecting invoices was like pulling teeth. It was around 2.5 months after the project was complete before we finally got paid in full.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 8:28 am to Dr Drunkenstein
quote:
Again, if paid ahead of time, fine.......but if this $ was paid after signing day like Oregon....yikes.
You mention three times that Oregon paid after Lache committed. See, you just followed along with what the article tried to infer but if you actually READ it you would notice that the check was for the next seasons recruiting info.
I bet you did get banned but I doubt it was for you standing up against all that's evil.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 9:33 am to LSUintheNW
quote:
See, you just followed along with what the article tried to infer but if you actually READ it you would notice that the check was for the next seasons recruiting info.
Nice.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 10:17 am to LSUintheNW
Someone is lying and it's easy to tell. Put these facts together from different articles.
Trevon Randle: I met Will Lyles in January 2010
Trevon Randle: If I get offered by LSU, I may commit on the spot. That's the one I'm waiting for. December 2009.
Why did LSU pay Will Lyles for anything related to Trevon Randle if he was already wanting to go to LSU before they met?
Trevon Randle: I met Will Lyles in January 2010
Trevon Randle: If I get offered by LSU, I may commit on the spot. That's the one I'm waiting for. December 2009.
Why did LSU pay Will Lyles for anything related to Trevon Randle if he was already wanting to go to LSU before they met?
Posted on 3/15/11 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
SlowFlow thanks for explaining to the UTw guy, but I think the burnt orange glasses he wears filters out any UTw violations.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 11:34 am to Born to be a Tiger
quote:
SlowFlow thanks for explaining to the UTw guy, but I think the burnt orange glasses he wears filters out any UTw violations.
...But...But...But UTw is a paragon of virtue! They would never do anything illegal! In terms of integrity they are right up there with tOSU! ...oh wait... nm
Look, this is really simple... At this moment, no one has suggested that LSU has broken any rules (apart from fans of other schools that are just throwing mud). They legally paid a recruiting service just like all the major schools do. If LSU was desperate enough to pay for a recruit, then I hope we get penalized. But, until a significant allegation arises all you people jumping on LSU need to STFU. Lyles being dirty and LSU having had contact with him does not infer that LSU did something dirty.
Posted on 3/15/11 at 12:00 pm to DocBugbear
quote:
...But...But...But UTw is a paragon of virtue! They would never do anything illegal! In terms of integrity they are right up there with tOSU! ...oh wait... nm
I always feel like we've stepped into an alternate bizzaro universe when I read posts from Texas fans talking about morality and football
This from the state where kids get held back by their parents and given growth hormones or steroids to be better on the high school football field?
Granted those are (hopefully) outlier examples... but if you want football crazy and willing to bend or break the rules... you can't have a conversation about that and fail to put the state of Texas at the top of the list
Now, back to the thread - yes IMO handlers and recruiting services are a major potential problem for NCAA athletics. But they have yet to address those issues and should sit down and think about what type of rational policy they can "legislate" and enforce
Posted on 3/15/11 at 12:28 pm to molsusports
Drunkenstein,You need to get more informed.LSU has already gone on record that CSS was paid in December.That's 2 months before signing day and Randle wasn't an EE guy.We're all good in that aspect.Aside from that we paid for the JC service.It has also been documented many times that Lyles is routinely out of the state of Texas.he's been to camps from California to Florida and many places in between.For someone that never leaves Texas he sure has been seen ain a lot of other states.Also it is common knowledge that lyles isn't the only "scout" that works for CSS.There are others.Is it not possible that maybe they got the footage of the JC schools?Also if you join the service and want to use it to get a kid noticed the film can be uploaded onto the site.Seems pretty easy to explain why CSS has the film.
I am one that has no doubt that LSU has done some dirty deeds and have never hidden that fact.The huge difference is that nothing can be proven.If it could we would have been in trouble long ago.There's a huge difference in knowing and proving wrongdoing.The Ncaa will face this same dilemma in the next few months as they investigate this stuff.It's going to be next to impossible to prove which schools did something illegal and which schools were on the up and up.They aren't going to be able to differentiate between the 2 without tangible proof.Word of mouth does not constitute proof.Those are called rumors.This investigation will only lead to stricter rules regarding scouting services unless someone starts spilling it all.In that case LSU and Oregon will only be the beginning.Every school in the country will be in trouble if that happens.
I am one that has no doubt that LSU has done some dirty deeds and have never hidden that fact.The huge difference is that nothing can be proven.If it could we would have been in trouble long ago.There's a huge difference in knowing and proving wrongdoing.The Ncaa will face this same dilemma in the next few months as they investigate this stuff.It's going to be next to impossible to prove which schools did something illegal and which schools were on the up and up.They aren't going to be able to differentiate between the 2 without tangible proof.Word of mouth does not constitute proof.Those are called rumors.This investigation will only lead to stricter rules regarding scouting services unless someone starts spilling it all.In that case LSU and Oregon will only be the beginning.Every school in the country will be in trouble if that happens.
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