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re: Star Barbe Pitcher (Jack Walker)in Transfer portal
Posted on 6/2/22 at 11:42 am to DRock88
Posted on 6/2/22 at 11:42 am to DRock88
It isn’t that he can’t be a contributor, I’m sure he won’t continue to have a 12.86 ERA no matter where he ends up. It’s that people were entirely too caught up in judging his ceiling or potential based on his high school numbers and not how he projected beyond that. Chances are he’s much closer to his ceiling than people realize and was never going to be the ace they expected.
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Posted on 6/2/22 at 11:46 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
Good deal, thank you. I don't get to read up on this stuff as much as I used to, but it fascinates me.
no problem. S&C has amde huge strides when it comes to baseball training the last 5 years with guys like Heenan, Cressey, Driveline, and Bill Miller leading the way. Hell even mike boyle to some extent
then you top that with the advances in the arm care department, especially coming from the crossover symmetry armcare.com device and you are looking at a huge revolution on understanding exactly what metrics we need to get kids to, to get to 90+. The protus motion machine, cheap affordable radar guns and crane scales along with availability of med balls has made it possible to train with the best in the world throught the internet and make huge gains.
withing 5 years 95 will be the minimal to get into the majors at all and you will have almost everyone being in the 98+ club. It will be getting even more insane than it already is.
the moment hitters start catching up just a little, things will just get harder on them.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:01 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
I will be looking up the names you gave, outside of Cressey and Driveline, who I'm already familiar with.
here is a good graphic that TV puts in there 3x program
the above goes more into the seperation details.
overall if you are looking at guys to follow, DeChant organized and hosted the baseball performance summit that has a lot of the best guys in the industry in it.
LINK
hopefully i can buy it soon. Im a big fan of Gerry Deflippo as we went through same certs, i was a couple classes behind him but we have very similar philoshophys. Bill is awesome too from understanding where to go once basics are maxed and you need to identify weaknesses. I have both his books and if you play golf, i highly suggest his swing fast book. he has really really pushed the envelope on the med ball throws. another good one is the guy who took over elliot hustles strength camps called overtime atheletes. does a good job, but he is straight S&C, just like Cal Dietz is. The others do a better job of rolling the total package together and blending things to work weakness.
of course you have the old school guys like mike boyle and mike reinold although still very much relevant, they arent pushing the envelope thats for sure.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:10 pm to Yippie_Ky_yae
I think LSU will look. But Walker seems a notch below the pitchers this staff has keyed in on, as far as raw stuff.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:45 pm to lsu777
quote:And that's all well and good.
after that is when you have to start getting more advanced with training specific deficiets along the strength curve and weighted ball programs etc.
The difference between less than a walk per 9 to a walk per inning tells me something was changed/is different.
That low a walk rate tells me he was also landing secondary pitches too. Doesn't have to be good secondary stuff but he still landed them for strikes.
When a kid can throw consistent strikes with 2 or more pitches, changing the delivery doesn't become an option until he proves he can't do it any more. Easy to feature that, right?
Looking for what's different leads me to the weight. Maybe it's not good weight. Maybe he didn't work hard enough to make it the new weight functional - or maybe he did - hard to know. Maybe he stopped growing in 10th or 11th and that 190 is his optimum weight.
I'm pretty sure they didn't try to put more weight on Tim Hudson at Auburn. 5'10 190 makes for a good foundation. A clean delivery that repeats itself - which he obviously had in HS - is what we're hunting for. That can yield consistent strikes that are NOT in the middle 1/3rd of the plate and those turn into outs whether we're trying to win games in the SEC or the World Series.
How hard did he throw in HS & MSU?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:51 pm to Damathe
quote:
And that's all well and good.
The difference between less than a walk per 9 to a walk per inning tells me something was changed/is different.
That low a walk rate tells me he was also landing secondary pitches too. Doesn't have to be good secondary stuff but he still landed them for strikes.
When a kid can throw consistent strikes with 2 or more pitches, changing the delivery doesn't become an option until he proves he can't do it any more. Easy to feature that, right?
Looking for what's different leads me to the weight. Maybe it's not good weight. Maybe he didn't work hard enough to make it the new weight functional - or maybe he did - hard to know. Maybe he stopped growing in 10th or 11th and that 190 is his optimum weight.
I'm pretty sure they didn't try to put more weight on Tim Hudson at Auburn. 5'10 190 makes for a good foundation. A clean delivery that repeats itself - which he obviously had in HS - is what we're hunting for. That can yield consistent strikes that are NOT in the middle 1/3rd of the plate and those turn into outs whether we're trying to win games in the SEC or the World Series.
How hard did he throw in HS & MSU?
MSU fans are saying their pitching coach has a history of messing with mechanics on pitchers and they beleive that contributed to Jack suddenly not being able to throw strikes and why he is leaving.
from what they are saying is that he is topping 90 now which is slower than verified speeds in hs when he was hitting 93 pretty regularly.
usually the above means 1 of 3 things...injury, change in mechanics or mobility issue. I dont think he is injuried so may be one of the other 2 but i am 100% guessing as i really have no clue specifically when it comes to walker.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:06 pm to lsu777
quote:To tinker with the mechanics of a guy with that history of throwing strikes borders on criminal - that's what led me to the weight.
MSU fans are saying their pitching coach has a history of messing with mechanics on pitchers and they beleive that contributed to Jack suddenly not being able to throw strikes and why he is leaving.
from what they are saying is that he is topping 90 now which is slower than verified speeds in hs when he was hitting 93 pretty regularly.
usually the above means 1 of 3 things...injury, change in mechanics or mobility issue. I dont think he is injuried so may be one of the other 2 but i am 100% guessing as i really have no clue specifically when it comes to walker.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:14 pm to MOT
Uh, do you even know who he was? He had tons of accolades coming out of HS and he definitely has potential. He's a freaking freshman. You guys act like he's been in college 4 years. You act like he went to some small college or something because he hit the ceiling in HS. You don't think MSU thought he has some ceiling potential?
If LSU aims higher and gets it that's perfectly fine. Don't act like this guy is a scrub that nobody wanted coming out of HS. He doesn't even have a full year in college yet. Based on our depth, we better be looking somewhere because PM's lazy recruiting has killed us especially on starters.
If LSU aims higher and gets it that's perfectly fine. Don't act like this guy is a scrub that nobody wanted coming out of HS. He doesn't even have a full year in college yet. Based on our depth, we better be looking somewhere because PM's lazy recruiting has killed us especially on starters.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:36 pm to Salviati
quote:.
13 walks in 14 innings.
He had 22 in 84 innings his Sr. In high school. Mound is still 60’6”. Something not right.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:39 pm to Tigerfan1274
quote:
He had 22 in 84 innings his Sr. In high school. Mound is still 60’6”. Something not right.
this is right, i was wrong earlier.
quote:
Walker went 13-0 with 121 strikeouts in 83.2 innings giving up a 0.48 ERA, and walking just 22 batters. He also threw three no-hitters on the season.
What makes Walker so effective isn’t an overpowering fastball but his great pitchability. He’s 6’0, 195 pounds with a fastball that sits anywhere from 89-90 and tops out around 92-93. But the movement on that fastball has given hitters fits.
for those asking. he had an elite slider in HS, dunno how that has changed if at all at MSU.
still think more likely to go smaller school this year and transfer if he has great year.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:24 pm to Tigerfan1274
quote:
13 walks in 14 innings. . He had 22 in 84 innings his Sr. In high school. Mound is still 60’6”. Something not right.
We really comparing high school and SEC stats? How many SEC prospects was this dude facing at Barbe?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:33 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
We really comparing high school and SEC stats? How many SEC prospects was this dude facing at Barbe?
quite a few sec and big 12 prospects actually and walks/command is usually the one stat that almost always translates.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:52 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:Throwing strikes is a function of a repeatable delivery.
We really comparing high school and SEC stats? How many SEC prospects was this dude facing at Barbe?
While it's not as good as I earlier thought, his BB per 9 was plenty good enough to be effective. Unless the delivery was changed by something - coach, weight, his mental makeup, or something else - he should have still been throwing strikes.
The saying goes "if he can do it once, it's in there" and he did it consistently in HS.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:55 pm to ProjectP2294
Screw all of the metrics and ratios; Ron Guidry says hello. The greats of yesteryears did not do any of this junk and could still throw well over 90 mph.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 3:55 pm to bearhc
quote:
Screw all of the metrics and ratios; Ron Guidry says hello. The greats of yesteryears did not do any of this junk and could still throw well over 90 mph.
Umm grandpa stfu. There is a reason only the greats threa 90-95 and now thats common in hs.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 5:10 pm to deuce985
That’s a whole lot of words to not answer the question and then create a straw man argument.
No one said he is a scrub. No one said he wasn’t going to a good program. What people did say was maybe there was more to the story than “lazy recruiting”, like maybe he just isn’t as good as you think, while others were hell bent on convincing everyone he would slot right into the weekend rotation and dominate for 3 years.
His career isn’t over and he will improve, but what we know so far is one of those two groups is much closer to being right than the other.
No one said he is a scrub. No one said he wasn’t going to a good program. What people did say was maybe there was more to the story than “lazy recruiting”, like maybe he just isn’t as good as you think, while others were hell bent on convincing everyone he would slot right into the weekend rotation and dominate for 3 years.
His career isn’t over and he will improve, but what we know so far is one of those two groups is much closer to being right than the other.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 5:15 pm to Damathe
quote:It’s also entirely possible he got a lot more chase outside of the zone in HS than he did in college, or that his stuff in the zone was getting hit harder by college guys than it did last year in high school causing him to nibble more.
Throwing strikes is a function of a repeatable delivery. While it's not as good as I earlier thought, his BB per 9 was plenty good enough to be effective.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 5:23 pm to deuce985
quote:
PM's lazy recruiting
LSU was NOT lazy in recruiting Jack.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 5:25 pm to lsu777
quote:
quite a few sec and big 12 prospects
I should have said D1 guys, but then everyone he faced in college by definition would be a D1 guy
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