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ELI5 new scholarship/payment rules
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:16 pm
From what I understand, rosters will be limited to 85 scholarship equivalents but can be spread out over 105 athletes with split scholarships like the other sports. Do athletes on the roster have to be scholarship players in order to receive the revenue money that the lawsuit requires the schools pay?
I guess I'm trying to figure out why the SEC didn't go to 105 for roster spots. Seems like it is better for retaining talent. Also, will walk ons be a thing after next year? Thanks for clearing anything up.
I guess I'm trying to figure out why the SEC didn't go to 105 for roster spots. Seems like it is better for retaining talent. Also, will walk ons be a thing after next year? Thanks for clearing anything up.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:24 pm to GhostofJackson
There’re 120 roster spots now…but there may only be 105 come next fall…with all being able to have scholarships.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:32 pm to Gaston
Didn’t the SEC decide to stick with 85?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:35 pm to GhostofJackson
I thought the 105 man limit would get rid of walk-ons all together which most coaches do not want to do? I could be dead wrong on this though.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:38 pm to DCtiger1
Scholarships…for now. They didn’t want to sign 105 then the court case not go through and have to revoke 20. I assume they’ll fall in line if the courts allow 105, at least on partial scholarship…if profit sharing goes through.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:42 pm to GhostofJackson
The SEC is the only P4 to go with just 85, they usually set the standard for CF but I just hope this decision doesn’t hamper SEC teams. The Commish Sankey is all about the SEC and making money so I’m sure there’s a method to this. I don’t think he’s in to giving anyone else an advantage over the SEC.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:46 pm to Sissidog02
SEC currently has 85… if revenue sharing bill gets passed in April the only guarantee is that roster size would go down from 120 to 105. I’d imagine SEC would change their stance if that happens
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:51 pm to JimTiger72
quote:
SEC currently has 85… if revenue sharing bill gets passed in April the only guarantee is that roster size would go down from 120 to 105. I’d imagine SEC would change their stance if that happens
So do walk ons count in the revenue sharing?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 1:52 pm to GhostofJackson
If SEC keeps scholarships to 85, then yes. You would have 20 walkons to get to 105
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:09 pm to JimTiger72
So basically we can expect more high profile guys will "walk on" because their revenue share may be more than what G5 schools can offer in NIL?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:28 pm to Sissidog02
quote:
The SEC is the only P4 to go with just 85, they usually set the standard for CF but I just hope this decision doesn’t hamper SEC teams.
Scholarship limits are defined by the NCAA, not the conferences. Even if the SEC said “sure, go sign up to 105 scholarship players” it wouldn’t change the fact that NCAA Bylaw 15.5.6.1 says that FBS teams can only have 85 counters (scholarship players). The SEC (or any other conference) has no authority to override those scholarship limits.
And therein lies the problem. The NCAA has not formally issued an interim policy addressing the pending House settlement - likely because they don’t want to negotiate against themselves. Teams who over-sign would be in violation of NCAA rules if the settlement falls through. In fact, they would be in violation the moment they have >85 scholarship players enrolled because the player becomes a counter as soon as they receive athletically-related financial aid. The midyear replacement rule allows you to replace departing players with EE’s and transfers, but only up to the number of players you lost.
So in the absence of an NCAA policy allowing teams to exceed 85 scholarships in the short term, nobody can sign >85 unless/until the settlement is approved and the NCAA changes the rule. That won’t happen until after this recruiting cycle is over.
In short, I don’t think the SEC’s decision about 2025 scholarship limits has nearly the impact that people think. If anything, I think it only prevents teams from signing additional portal guys or last-minute HS signees after the settlement gets approved (April at earliest). But it’s not like there’s a ton of talent waiting in the wings at that point.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:52 pm to GhostofJackson
quote:
So basically we can expect more high profile guys will "walk on" because their revenue share may be more than what G5 schools can offer in NIL?
Not exactly.
Right now NCAA rules say you can have up to 120 players on the squad, but only 85 can receive scholarships.
If the House settlement is approved, scholarship limits will be completely eliminated. At the same time, the squad size limit will be reduced from 120 to 105. This effectively means two things:
1. Each school will have an additional 20 scholarships available.
2. Each school will have to eliminate up to 15 roster spots.
What that means for walk-ons is still TBD. A number of current walk-ons will likely receive scholarships as soon as the settlement gets approved. But the question is whether we will see new walk-ons in the future. There’s nothing that says the schools have to offer the entire 105 scholarships, or that every player on the roster must be on scholarship. So it will really come down to roster/cost management. I think most of the “PWO” types will likely become scholarship players, while your “true” walk-ons who have no chance to compete will likely go by the wayside.
Where revenue sharing/NIL come into play is this:
1. It’s unclear how staffs will divvy up rev share money within a given sport. But based on current trends, I would be a bit surprised if they give all 105 (or whatever number) on the roster equal money. So I expect guys at the bottom of the 105 to get less while top players get more.
2. The more interesting thing to me is whether rev share incentivizes schools to keep less than 105 players on the roster. In the past we haven’t really worried about the financial cost of scholarships. But revenue sharing is going to make for much tighter finances. LSU in-state total cost of attendance is like $35k/year without counting additional support that scholarship athletes receive. So adding 20 scholarship players is like $700k for the athletic department. Some schools that have trouble hitting the rev share cap might get better value by allocating that $700k towards a smaller roster, instead of more players.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 7:36 pm to lostinbr
Seems like maybe a good strategy is to go after 105 and have top 20 earners forgo their scholarships and pay their own way. That might mean we might get these extra 20 spots as early as the summer?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 8:10 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Scholarship limits are defined by the NCAA, not the conferences. Even if the SEC said “sure, go sign up to 105 scholarship players” it wouldn’t change the fact that NCAA Bylaw 15.5.6.1 says that FBS teams can only have 85 counters (scholarship players). The SEC (or any other conference) has no authority to override those scholarship limits.
And therein lies the problem. The NCAA has not formally issued an interim policy addressing the pending House settlement - likely because they don’t want to negotiate against themselves. Teams who over-sign would be in violation of NCAA rules if the settlement falls through. In fact, they would be in violation the moment they have >85 scholarship players enrolled because the player becomes a counter as soon as they receive athletically-related financial aid. The midyear replacement rule allows you to replace departing players with EE’s and transfers, but only up to the number of players you lost.
So in the absence of an NCAA policy allowing teams to exceed 85 scholarships in the short term, nobody can sign >85 unless/until the settlement is approved and the NCAA changes the rule. That won’t happen until after this recruiting cycle is over.
In short, I don’t think the SEC’s decision about 2025 scholarship limits has nearly the impact that people think. If anything, I think it only prevents teams from signing additional portal guys or last-minute HS signees after the settlement gets approved (April at earliest). But it’s not like there’s a ton of talent waiting in the wings at that point.
Thanks for the bylaw. This is a good explanation. I think the SEC figures it's easier to add 20 scholarships than to strip any scholarships.
I wonder if this may be why it looks like teams have excess players, could it be an expectation of additional scholarships?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 10:08 pm to GhostofJackson
quote:
Seems like maybe a good strategy is to go after 105 and have top 20 earners forgo their scholarships and pay their own way. That might mean we might get these extra 20 spots as early as the summer?
Ah I see what you were getting at now. I didn’t catch it in the post I replied to.
I mean.. maybe. We’ve heard stories about that strategy being used with NIL in baseball, where scholarships are spread super thin. I’m just not convinced it’s worthwhile in football. Theoretically teams can do that now with NIL from collectives. But is adding the 86th best player to your roster really worth spreading the NIL/rev share money thinner elsewhere?
Posted on 12/18/24 at 10:15 pm to mdomingue
quote:
I wonder if this may be why it looks like teams have excess players, could it be an expectation of additional scholarships?
I haven’t really noticed that.. any examples you can give?
The way the rule is written, you can’t exceed 85 counters at any point. A player becomes a counter as soon as they receive financial aid in a given year, and the minimum duration of any financial aid agreement is one full academic year.
There’s an exception for “midyear replacements.” Basically if a player is on scholarship but is no longer going to be part of the team for the spring semester (because they’re out of eligibility, entering the draft, or transferring), you can “replace” that counter with another scholarship. The player you bring in to replace him doesn’t become a counter until the next semester after the spring.
Historically the midyear replacements have primarily been used for early enrollees. But now they can be used for transfer portal additions as well. The point, though, is that you only get one “free” spring semester scholarship for each player you actually lose. Once you use those up, any additional scholarships you add in the spring are counters immediately and apply to the 85 cap. So there’s not really a way to have like 100 guys on scholarship going into spring practice.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 7:36 am to lostinbr
quote:
The way the rule is written, you can’t exceed 85 counters at any point. A player becomes a counter as soon as they receive financial aid in a given year, and the minimum duration of any financial aid agreement is one full academic year.
Right, I was aware of that. I am specifically talking about the portal guys right now and possible additions that look like over the 85 (which happens often) with several unknowns on who is staying or if guys might transfer or pull back out of the portal (if thatis even a desire by the staff) or even medical redshirt for John Emery.
quote:
There’s an exception for “midyear replacements.” Basically if a player is on scholarship but is no longer going to be part of the team for the spring semester (because they’re out of eligibility, entering the draft, or transferring), you can “replace” that counter with another scholarship. The player you bring in to replace him doesn’t become a counter until the next semester after the spring.
I know this usually covers those excess counters but I am not sure what is happening with a couple of players (as noted above) or if we plan to add any more guys in the portal. I have lost track of where we are with counters but I feel like we are over 85 even with attrition right now.
SO it was really just idle curiosity on my part.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 7:53 am to mdomingue
quote:
Right, I was aware of that. I am specifically talking about the portal guys right now and possible additions that look like over the 85 (which happens often) with several unknowns on who is staying or if guys might transfer or pull back out of the portal (if thatis even a desire by the staff) or even medical redshirt for John Emery.
One thing to remember is that a lot of your HS signees won’t enroll until summer, even though they’re already signed. So you don’t need to use midyear replacements for those kids. Only the EE’s and incoming transfers.
Right now we are definitely losing 17 players to eligibility + draft, with another 16 in the portal. So 33 outgoing, not counting Perkins or Emery. We have 23 HS signees + 9 committed transfers, or 32 total incoming. I’ve also heard that we were only at 83 scholarships this year but can’t confirm.
Basically we have 1-3 spots available right now (depending on scholarship numbers this year) which could increase to 3-5 if Perkins and Emery both move on. But we will also have additional attrition in the spring window (including some players who might be “processed” if we are trending over 85). The spring window is when it becomes really critical, because that’s your last chance to tweak numbers before the summer enrollees come in from HS.
This post was edited on 12/19/24 at 7:57 am
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