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Started By
Message
Wire size to detached shed ~250’ from house panel?
Posted on 5/8/22 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 5/8/22 at 8:53 pm
Want to run power to my shed, it’s about 250’ from the panel to the shed. Would then put a small panel box in the shed. Would like to have 220 for a welding machine but not necessary if it’s a lot more than a regular circuit (I can use a generator for the rare instances I weld).
Thanks
Thanks
3
Posted on 5/8/22 at 10:14 pm to poochie
Here's a Voltage Drop Calculator from Southwire.
The more thought and planning you put into what loads you want to power at your remote shed, the better the results will be.
And if you haven't bought wire/cable lately, sit down before you look at prices.
The more thought and planning you put into what loads you want to power at your remote shed, the better the results will be.
And if you haven't bought wire/cable lately, sit down before you look at prices.
Posted on 5/8/22 at 10:38 pm to poochie
quote:
Want to run power to my shed, it’s about 250’ from the panel to the shed. Would then put a small panel box in the shed. Would like to have 220 for a welding machine but not necessary if it’s a lot more than a regular circuit (I can use a generator for the rare instances I weld).
What else will be in the shed? The 220 welder will require 40-50A, and 250’ is a long run.
If you don’t need the 220, that reduces your cost, and if smaller circuits that will as well.
Are you using direct burial or conduit?
Posted on 5/9/22 at 7:27 am to LSUtigerME
quote:
If you don’t need the 220, that reduces your cost, and if smaller circuits that will as well.
Isn't it all about the amp draw, not really the voltage when it comes to wire sizing? So does 220 really make a difference if the total amps required to the sub panel stay the same? Obviously that wouldn't be the case if he doesn't include the welding machine, but just pointing out that a 220 circuit itself shouldn't make it much more expensive. This seems to be the case when I had a 220 circuit added to my garage along with a few 110 circuits.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 8:06 am to LSUtigerME
Either direct burial or conduit, whichever makes more sense ($).
At minimum a few LED lights and the capability to run a table saw or planer along with a vacuum.
At minimum a few LED lights and the capability to run a table saw or planer along with a vacuum.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 12:29 pm to poochie
Go to electrical supply house and buy direct burial Alumnium wire. based on the load calc previously posted. Will be significantly cheaper than copper and you can buy it by the foot. make sure to measure and get enough to go up into each panel.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 1:55 pm to Jon A thon
quote:
Isn't it all about the amp draw, not really the voltage when it comes to wire sizing? So does 220 really make a difference if the total amps required to the sub panel stay the same?
Correct. However, 220V requires another conductor and obviously the welder is the biggest amp draw. Without that, he could have the entire shed just be a 20A branch circuit.
Direct burial will probably be cheapest. Even if in conduit, it would have to be wet rated cable.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 2:07 pm to Tbooux
quote:
Go to electrical supply house and buy direct burial Alumnium wire. based on the load calc previously posted. Will be significantly cheaper than copper and you can buy it by the foot. make sure to measure and get enough to go up into each panel.
is there concern betwen aluminum wire and copper wire? i thought it was a no-no to use both in the same system?
Posted on 5/9/22 at 2:35 pm to poochie
There can be issues. gotta check all the components being used. You definitely dont want aluminum and copper to be touching each other anywhere.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 5:16 pm to poochie
quote:
Want to run power to my shed, it’s about 250’ from the panel to the shed. Would then put a small panel box in the shed. Would like to have 220 for a welding machine but not necessary if it’s a lot more than a regular circuit (I can use a generator for the rare instances I weld).
i dont need a 220 but otherwise i'm in the same boat so following this thread with interest.
shed is 'pre-wired' with outlets, a light and a lightswitch but not connected to the house
i didn't catch that on the inspection. just popped my head in and flipped the light and assumed the breaker was off.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 6:41 pm to CAD703X
I’m not going to hijack the thread, but maybe point it in the same direction as myself and CAD…
Keeping with the welder requirements: Based on the voltage drop for OP at 250’, 240V, 50A minimum, he’s going to need a 4 AWG copper wire.
If OP wanted to evaluate prices, what kind of wire would he need?
My understanding it needs to be 4 wires, two conductors, neutral, and ground.
If it’s direct burial, UF-B? Can you get 4 AWG UF-B?
If it’s in conduit, THWN and a bare copper ground? SEU? My issue with THWN is that it MUST be in conduit, so where he tied into his house and into the shed, it has to be in conduit all the way to the panel (vs loose in wall or in attic).
What size conduit? Does it need to be S/80 or is S/40 fine?
Does he need a separate ground rod in the shed for the detached panel? My understanding is yes, particularly if metal shed, but the panel is not bonded.
Keeping with the welder requirements: Based on the voltage drop for OP at 250’, 240V, 50A minimum, he’s going to need a 4 AWG copper wire.
If OP wanted to evaluate prices, what kind of wire would he need?
My understanding it needs to be 4 wires, two conductors, neutral, and ground.
If it’s direct burial, UF-B? Can you get 4 AWG UF-B?
If it’s in conduit, THWN and a bare copper ground? SEU? My issue with THWN is that it MUST be in conduit, so where he tied into his house and into the shed, it has to be in conduit all the way to the panel (vs loose in wall or in attic).
What size conduit? Does it need to be S/80 or is S/40 fine?
Does he need a separate ground rod in the shed for the detached panel? My understanding is yes, particularly if metal shed, but the panel is not bonded.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 8:30 pm to LSUtigerME
I’ve consulted an electrician friend and he recommends 2-2-2-8. I’ve found 2-2-2-4 aluminum that woody work. He said the voltage drop for 240v at 50 amps would be down to 233 volts. I can live with that.
Posted on 5/9/22 at 9:23 pm to poochie
quote:
I’ve found 2-2-2-4 aluminum that woody work.
What kind of wire? UF-B or something else?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 12:58 pm to CAD703X
quote:
shed is 'pre-wired' with outlets, a light and a lightswitch but not connected to the house
Then where do the wire go.... into a breaker box or disconnect??
Posted on 5/11/22 at 6:48 am to LSUtigerME
That’s weird… crap Why would that be?
Both panels are inside.
Eta: it looks like it can be run in conduit inside….
Both panels are inside.
Eta: it looks like it can be run in conduit inside….
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 7:00 am
Posted on 5/11/22 at 10:56 am to LSUtigerME
quote:
My understanding it needs to be 4 wires, two conductors, neutral, and ground.
These unattached structures would likely be considered separate services. As such, you wouldn't run a ground (you can if you want). You would install a grounding electrode system (ground rod with a bonding jumper is likely adequate) at the unattached building and provide a neutral-ground bond at the service entrance disconnect in the unattached building.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 10:57 am
Posted on 5/11/22 at 12:38 pm to notsince98
quote:
These unattached structures would likely be considered separate services. As such, you wouldn't run a ground (you can if you want). You would install a grounding electrode system (ground rod with a bonding jumper is likely adequate) at the unattached building and provide a neutral-ground bond at the service entrance disconnect in the unattached building.
Thanks for the comment. I’ve seen comments online both ways.
On the URD issue, I can conduit or bury 99% of the path. Is it possible to splice with an approved material for that last 1% to snake it from my attic, through the wall, to my main panel?
Posted on 5/11/22 at 1:07 pm to poochie
quote:
Thanks for the comment. I’ve seen comments online both ways.
On the URD issue, I can conduit or bury 99% of the path. Is it possible to splice with an approved material for that last 1% to snake it from my attic, through the wall, to my main panel?
Splicing isn't usually the best method. If you can find some kind of waterproof, gasketed enclosure with a terminal strip on the inside, that might be a better choice. You'd bring in your direct buried cable, land it on the terminals, then land the indoor rated cable on the opposite terminals and away you go.
If you do go the splice route, heat-shrink weatherproof type kits are highly recommended.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 1:33 pm to notsince98
That’s more what I meant, terminating within a box.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 5:43 pm to poochie
I think the key is the terminal strips since you’ll have such different size wires of different materials.
My plan is to run conduit the full way to the panel in shop, and to a box on the house side. I’ll probably just pull some #4 copper THWN wire and convert to 4/3 NM-B at the house J-box to the house subpanel. I only have about a 70ft run panel to panel.
My plan is to run conduit the full way to the panel in shop, and to a box on the house side. I’ll probably just pull some #4 copper THWN wire and convert to 4/3 NM-B at the house J-box to the house subpanel. I only have about a 70ft run panel to panel.
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 8:41 am
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