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Started By
Message
re: New home builders routes to save money
Posted on 12/10/20 at 7:59 am to shoelessjoe
Posted on 12/10/20 at 7:59 am to shoelessjoe
Don’t waste money on shoe storage.
0
Posted on 12/10/20 at 9:09 am to Gtmodawg
quote:
very few houses are built in this country which do not eventually get resold....high end finishes are expensive and their value after the initial sell is questionable at best....
This is a decent point. Op, how long do you intend to keep this house.
Note, in my opinion, unless you plan on staying in a house for a long time, building a house is never a better financial decision vs buying a house.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 9:31 am to CollegeFBRules
quote:
No they aren’t.
I've found them to be easy.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 9:32 am to Bawcephus
quote:
You sir, are insane.
Might be.
quote:
But fricking cabinets? Done right?
No.
I find them easy to build, maybe I just have a certain set of skills.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 9:36 am to Gtmodawg
I was referring to custom cabinets, not home depot cabinets.
Of course, you can buy some prefab big box store cabinets for cheaper than customs.
Of course, you can buy some prefab big box store cabinets for cheaper than customs.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 9:42 am to Aristo
I built half the cabinets in my house and I would not say that they are in any way easy (and I really enjoy carpentry and have a lot of tools in hand.) Nor would I say the average or even above average home carpenter could successfully build cabinets that approach the quality of custom cabinets.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 10:00 am to Coon
Maybe so, I guess I just had a really good mentor.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 10:02 am to Aristo
quote:
Maybe so, I guess I just had a really good mentor.
Well why would you offer that as a savings solution to 99.99999% of the rest of the world?
Posted on 12/10/20 at 10:25 am to Coon
quote:
Well why would you offer that as a savings solution to 99.99999% of the rest of the world?
I've just never really found them to be that hard.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 10:53 am to Aristo
quote:
Aristo
In general, I agree with you, but it certainly takes a level of experience and skill. It also depends on the type and style of cabinetry you want.
Material costs are a large amount, but the savings you can realize is not large for the same level of quality. Meaning the savings realized by cost shopping specific materials won’t realize huge gains. Larger materials savings will be realized by substituting materials. Do you really need crown molding? Does it have to be triple crown? Does your home need dormers? Do you need those fancy windows? Etc.
The majority of cost savings in a home will come by reducing labor costs. Anything you can do yourself or utilize side work/cash jobs, etc. will really drive your cost down.
I did all my electrical work, cabinets, and trim work in my home. As the homeowner, you can always pull your own permits, but this doesn’t mean that you should. Painting is a huge cost that doesn’t require licensure and can certainly be done by the average homeowner. You’ll sacrifice time, but you’ll see savings.
Another way to reduce costs is by reducing scope as much as possible. Gravel driveway vs concrete. Not finishing out an upstairs room or bonus room. No landscaping or yard work. You have to be careful how these things may affect the appraisal, but it’s ways to reduce costs.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 11:08 am to Aristo
quote:
I was referring to custom cabinets, not home depot cabinets.
Of course, you can buy some prefab big box store cabinets for cheaper than customs.
You can't get one off cabinets for less money than very high end factory cabinets which are not built until designed and ordered...I am not talking about the ones at the big box stores you can buy today and take with you, I am talking about the ones you gotta sit in the chair at the big box store and order. They will be EXACTLY the same as those the local cabinet shop "custom builds" other than the local cabinet shop will take the measurement. The wood, the doors and the hardware will be identical...the ones from a larger factory may actually be built better depending on how the local shop is doing joinery....very few people can cut a dovetail for a drawer box, for example, using either hand tools or power tools, as a computer can. I did a NQA Vendor Qual once at a filter factor and they could cut rabbeted joints with a tolerance of about .0001 inch in MDF panels....there is NO WAY a local cabinet shop could do this....the heat in the blade would make it impossible.
There are only a couple of ways to build cabinets and there is a limited amount of material which is appropriate....the factory can do them all and can buy the material in volume and therefore at a lower cost. Joining wood requires precision and there is no woodworker alive who can match the precision of a machine properly set up and tooled to make the same cut hundreds of times a day. The factory can also source hardware such as drawer slides and hinges far cheaper than the local cabinet maker can. The quality of high end factory built cabinets will rival the finest high end furniture, either production pieces or one offs....and will be less expensive with better quality. Custom cabinets have their place in the industry but if it is a standard kitchen or bath layout and nothing is out of the ordinary factory cabinets will be higher quality and less expensive....
Posted on 12/10/20 at 12:00 pm to shoelessjoe
Lots of money are spent on change orders. Know the plans inside and out, know the specs of what finishes you want. Know what supply of the finishes you want are. Are they hard to find currently? Plenty in inventory? Stay 2 steps ahead of the contractor to make sure he/she is not waiting on you for anything. Fight the urge to make changes while under construction.
Posted on 12/10/20 at 8:00 pm to Coon
quote:
This is a decent point. Op, how long do you intend to keep this house.
Till the day I die. We are currently in our house we bought when we got married. Already have a bunch of people interested in buying it when the time comes. I am redoing everything inside and will leave all furniture. Everything is staying with the house except the televisions which will be in the bedrooms and bath. Leaving the lawnmower as well. Will use the sale of the house to pay for building materials.
This post was edited on 12/10/20 at 8:26 pm
Posted on 12/10/20 at 8:04 pm to TimeOutdoors
Not worried about cabinets because my brother in law is doing all of that and my finish work. I love the idea of buying in bulk and storing things like my electrical and plumbing stuff. Someone already mentioned about flooring, furniture and electrical, is there any wholesale plumbing website to look into? Something that has the name brands but at cheaper costs like wholesale?
Posted on 12/10/20 at 8:24 pm to shoelessjoe
Is there a wholesale place to buy granite?
Posted on 12/11/20 at 8:08 pm to shoelessjoe
Maybe it’s just me but if you spend a whole lot of money on a house which you will live in forever and go ultra cheap on things that aren’t easily changed (countertops), what’s the point?
Posted on 12/11/20 at 10:32 pm to Coon
Not saying I will go cheap. Looking at ways that people are aware of that saves money but have the same quality. EXAMPLE: instead of buying local, buy wholesale. Can I buy granite from somewhere else besides the nearest place? Has anyone dealt with out of state options online buying things that were a cheaper option. Plumbing, electrical, appliances, granite, furniture.
Again this is the first time I have done this and just keeping all options open. Some have given great insight, any others is well received and appreciated.
Again this is the first time I have done this and just keeping all options open. Some have given great insight, any others is well received and appreciated.
Posted on 12/12/20 at 8:21 am to shoelessjoe
Firstly, I am fully on board with you saving as much money as possible. I just built a house and went in with the same mindset. Hell, everyone wants to save money. I’ll just make a few points and let this go.
The two things you pay for are materials and labor. Sounds like you are contracting yourself which will save ton money and allow you to have as much control as possible over the project. That’s great because you’re not reliant on a general contractor.
On materials:
You can shop til you’re blue in the face and save a few percent here. You’re not going to cut a lot off of the main things lumber, concrete, building materials, plumbing and electrical rough in materials, etc. Those are pretty set.
For finishes, you can save some here but it goes back to two things: a) you’re going to pay for quality. Anything substantially cheaper will be lower quality. Or in the case of countertops or other finishes, not as visually appealing (I don’t want to put “ugly” here because people have different tastes.) b) the law of diminishing reruns. Yes, some guy 4 states over may have stone for cheaper than you want but now you gotta get it here, your fabricator needs to deal with it, etc... one thing that we saved on was shopping plumbing and light fixtures. Wasn’t really worried about name brand for light fixtures but did go with name brand plumbing because that’s something that goes out and needs repair.
On labor: this is where you can really move the needle if you do work yourself. There’s low hanging fruit that, if you’re so inclined, you can handle. Simple carpentry like installing siding, non-common area cabinets, doing simple framing changes yourself, cleanup, hauling off trash if you have a dump as opposed to a dumpster, painting and caulking, maybe electrical trim out, if you can run equipment-doing your own dirt work and flat work forming, installing flooring and tile work. All of these things in and of themselves are easy and an above average diy’er can certainly tackle them. BUT (and a big but here), remember that trained professionals know their job. They can do it way more efficiently and typically with a better finished product than you. Plus I assume you have a day job so you would be doing these things on nights and weekends. And that clock is ticking at the bank. So those 2-3 months extra you take are going to cost you a few thousand in carrying costs. So kind of like pay me now or pay me later.
In addition to all of that, say you do all of that and save $25k. With interest rates today you’ll be saving $100/mon (assuming 2.5%/30y). That may or may not be worth it to you. Or to you in 2050.
I wish you well on this journey. It’s fun. I loved it. I’d do it again in a heartbeat (doing less myself, tho, lol). Remember to keep the big picture in view and keep us posted on your progress.
Eta:
Just did the math and we spent about $40k on “finishes” (materials only) which includes paint, countertops, interior trim, flooring (wood, marble, tile), plumbing and electrical fixtures. So even if you cut that in half (which isn’t feasible at all), at best you’d save $20k. But you’d have some pretty low quality stuff.
The two things you pay for are materials and labor. Sounds like you are contracting yourself which will save ton money and allow you to have as much control as possible over the project. That’s great because you’re not reliant on a general contractor.
On materials:
You can shop til you’re blue in the face and save a few percent here. You’re not going to cut a lot off of the main things lumber, concrete, building materials, plumbing and electrical rough in materials, etc. Those are pretty set.
For finishes, you can save some here but it goes back to two things: a) you’re going to pay for quality. Anything substantially cheaper will be lower quality. Or in the case of countertops or other finishes, not as visually appealing (I don’t want to put “ugly” here because people have different tastes.) b) the law of diminishing reruns. Yes, some guy 4 states over may have stone for cheaper than you want but now you gotta get it here, your fabricator needs to deal with it, etc... one thing that we saved on was shopping plumbing and light fixtures. Wasn’t really worried about name brand for light fixtures but did go with name brand plumbing because that’s something that goes out and needs repair.
On labor: this is where you can really move the needle if you do work yourself. There’s low hanging fruit that, if you’re so inclined, you can handle. Simple carpentry like installing siding, non-common area cabinets, doing simple framing changes yourself, cleanup, hauling off trash if you have a dump as opposed to a dumpster, painting and caulking, maybe electrical trim out, if you can run equipment-doing your own dirt work and flat work forming, installing flooring and tile work. All of these things in and of themselves are easy and an above average diy’er can certainly tackle them. BUT (and a big but here), remember that trained professionals know their job. They can do it way more efficiently and typically with a better finished product than you. Plus I assume you have a day job so you would be doing these things on nights and weekends. And that clock is ticking at the bank. So those 2-3 months extra you take are going to cost you a few thousand in carrying costs. So kind of like pay me now or pay me later.
In addition to all of that, say you do all of that and save $25k. With interest rates today you’ll be saving $100/mon (assuming 2.5%/30y). That may or may not be worth it to you. Or to you in 2050.
I wish you well on this journey. It’s fun. I loved it. I’d do it again in a heartbeat (doing less myself, tho, lol). Remember to keep the big picture in view and keep us posted on your progress.
Eta:
Just did the math and we spent about $40k on “finishes” (materials only) which includes paint, countertops, interior trim, flooring (wood, marble, tile), plumbing and electrical fixtures. So even if you cut that in half (which isn’t feasible at all), at best you’d save $20k. But you’d have some pretty low quality stuff.
This post was edited on 12/12/20 at 10:11 am
Posted on 12/12/20 at 9:17 pm to Coon
Really appreciate the post Coon. I am really looking forward to it as well. Glad someone with recent experience weighed in. I definitely am not sacrificing quality. I have a friend of mine that I am thinking of doing the painting for me. Was thinking cash could save me on the quote I received. I work shift work so painting would be a problem for me. My buddy used to be a painter by trade until his divorce. My brother in law is my carpenter and will be overlooking the build when I’m not there so that helps. All of the people used, work together so sub contracting was a no brainer. Will post pics as it’s being built. Start in September.
Posted on 12/14/20 at 9:35 pm to Coon
Coon, where did you get your flooring, electrical and plumbing from? I’m about 55k with mine.
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