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Identifying single stage, multi stage and variable speed AC units
Posted on 4/15/23 at 11:57 am
Posted on 4/15/23 at 11:57 am
This seems like a dumb question but I’m just trying to 100% certain on something. Had a Carrier's unit installed this week. Guy quoted me a 16 seer Performance line unit that was “variable speed”. I was excited to hear how quiet it was so I got to the outside unit and turn down the temperature inside and boom it slams on at 100%. I then go in the attic just curious as to maybe the variable speed occurs in the attic but nope, zero fluctuation in speed.
I then get the serial number and model number off outside unit and they confirm 100% that based off that serial number it’s a 16 seer single stage unit, nothing variable about it. Thankfully I haven’t paid him anything yet but he’s coming over today to discuss. Is there any chance Cartier could be wrong and that the thing is variable speed? Wouldn’t you be able to hear the unit varying in speed?
I then get the serial number and model number off outside unit and they confirm 100% that based off that serial number it’s a 16 seer single stage unit, nothing variable about it. Thankfully I haven’t paid him anything yet but he’s coming over today to discuss. Is there any chance Cartier could be wrong and that the thing is variable speed? Wouldn’t you be able to hear the unit varying in speed?
7
Posted on 4/15/23 at 11:59 am to TitleistProV1X
He tried to rip you off and you caught him! I wonder how many times did he do this to others and got away with it?
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:05 pm to Skippy1013
Yea I was willing to pay him $5k extra for variable speed since I have a large house and my electric bills run over $700 a month during the summer but I’m not paying an extra $5k for 16 seer single stage, basically what I already had just 15 years newer. I received a lot of quotes before I kicked this off and most were in the $11,500 range for a 5 ton carrier single stage. He was $16k
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:09 pm to TitleistProV1X
You should make him take it out and put in what you agreed to. You should also consider reporting him to the BBB and the Attorney General’s office. Maybe even notify the Carrier Rep or Carrier distributor.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:12 pm to TitleistProV1X
"Thankfully I haven’t paid him anything yet but he’s coming over today to discuss"
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Keep us updated!
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Keep us updated!
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:15 pm to Skippy1013
Yea he’s coming over today. He insists that it’s variable speed but that’s not what Carrier says and the thing is not what I would describe as quiet or varying in speed. I told him he has to show me the serial number on it that will confirm it’s variable so I can call carrier and have them confirm. I’m 99.9% sure it’s single speed, which Carrier confirmed, but I’ll give him a chance to explain.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:30 pm to TitleistProV1X
If it's 16 SEER, it's a standard compressor (single speed). You can get better performance with the 17.2 SEER (two speed) and a true VFD controlled compressor in the Infinity series; I think that one is 19 SEER and a 24 SEER at the top. Keep in mind that a true VFD compressor is going to almost double the cost of the unit.
Usually the supply fan is controlled by an ECM motor and that's where they get the "variable speed". The fan won't vary a lot (usually 5 speeds) that goes with the output signal for the compressor staging or heat staging.
Usually the supply fan is controlled by an ECM motor and that's where they get the "variable speed". The fan won't vary a lot (usually 5 speeds) that goes with the output signal for the compressor staging or heat staging.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:34 pm to TitleistProV1X
Who did you use? Local or larger company.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:40 pm to UPGDude
Can you install an ECM motor on a single stage unit?
Posted on 4/15/23 at 12:43 pm to contraryman
It was a local company in the New Orleans metropolitan area. They’ve been in business for about 25 years but I can’t find much in terms of online reviews. I was going to pay him $35k cash to replace 5 ton, 3.5 ton and 2.5 ton with all variable units
Posted on 4/15/23 at 1:18 pm to TitleistProV1X
quote:
Can you install an ECM motor on a single stage unit?
Technically you can put whatever you want to but if it's a new unit that would invalidate the warranty on the indoor fan/furnace. Generally the control board in the unit would need to be replaced as well. Keep in mind this is for the indoor fan. The compressor is a different story.
I see you budgeted $35K for 3 units.Based on what dealers are charging contractors these days, you'd probably need to budget $45-50K for a complete install for 3 units (for VFD control of the compressor; Infinity Series for Carrier).
Posted on 4/15/23 at 1:24 pm to UPGDude
Yea I figured it would void the warranty which obviously I would not be interested in. Most quotes I received listed like 3 or 4 options and like you’re saying the infinity series was right around that price. This guy was at $38k but $35k cash so that is the route I was planning on but that plan has been blown up
Posted on 4/15/23 at 2:13 pm to TitleistProV1X
The thermostat should say infinity if it's variable speed. Which company is this so I can avoid them.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 2:15 pm to TitleistProV1X
Please name and shame. I recently had an issue with Surgi’s, so I’d like to know who else to avoid.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 2:16 pm to LEASTBAY
Yea they just hooked it up to my nest so nowhere does it say Infinity. Will be an interesting conversation if he shows up today.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 2:17 pm to TitleistProV1X
Maybe there's a performance variable speed but variable speed definitely does not work with a nest or ecobee or whatever.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 2:21 pm to biggie
I will name them once the saga is over. I should’ve went with Pabst. Their price was good and they have a lot of good reviews online
Posted on 4/15/23 at 3:34 pm to TitleistProV1X
You definitely didn’t get what you thought you were buying but did they not specify model numbers ,etc. on the quote sheet? I hope that aspect doesn’t present an issue for you.
This is where he may try to get himself off the hook, with the term “variable speed”, though doesn’t mean they won’t swap your unit out for what you really want and thought you were buying in the first place.
All air handlers or furnaces made today with single stage HVACs are going to have constant torque or variable speed EMC blower motors (as opposed to a PSC motor) which will vary their speed somewhat to maintain a constant CFM airflow against whatever static pressure (=resistance to air flow) they are encountering.
There is a big step in price when you go from single stage to two stage or multiple-stage VFD drive systems, with two stage price being more closely priced to the VFD than the single stage (at least that was my experience with quotes).
Good luck - hope you get it resolved in your favor.
quote:
Usually the supply fan is controlled by an ECM motor and that's where they get the "variable speed". The fan won't vary a lot (usually 5 speeds) that goes with the output signal for the compressor staging or heat staging.
This is where he may try to get himself off the hook, with the term “variable speed”, though doesn’t mean they won’t swap your unit out for what you really want and thought you were buying in the first place.
All air handlers or furnaces made today with single stage HVACs are going to have constant torque or variable speed EMC blower motors (as opposed to a PSC motor) which will vary their speed somewhat to maintain a constant CFM airflow against whatever static pressure (=resistance to air flow) they are encountering.
There is a big step in price when you go from single stage to two stage or multiple-stage VFD drive systems, with two stage price being more closely priced to the VFD than the single stage (at least that was my experience with quotes).
Good luck - hope you get it resolved in your favor.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 3:44 pm to TitleistProV1X
quote:
Yea they just hooked it up to my nest so nowhere does it say Infinity.
My Carrier Infinity thermostat looks like this and I can use the Infinity App on my phone to control everything.
Posted on 4/15/23 at 4:05 pm to weadjust
Right. Not swapping that for a nest. It can't change the speeds of the motor. Just off and on.
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