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Message
Composite stair project complete! Shout out to Ric Flair & JunkyFunky (PICS)
Posted on 9/6/21 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 9/6/21 at 1:01 pm
First thanks to Ric for the idea to build 2 boxes instead of using stringers and JunkyFunky for helping with design and catching my bad math calculations. 
I wouldn't have tackled this without the help.
So originally I had 3 steps that were rotten to the core thanks to a gutter joint that has been leaking for 30 years. (We only bought the house a few years ago so I'm only guilty of ignoring this for the last 6 years)
BEFORE
Pretty bad off. We poured the concrete pad long after the steps were here which is why the bottom step is even with the ground. The concrete guy used the existing bottom step for part of the framing.
DEMOLITION
The more I pulled up the worse it got. Even had to cut out a large section of the deck 2x8 frame and replace that.
DESIGN & CONSTRUCTION
Thanks to Ric Flair for the plan; I created 2 boxes (16x4 and 14x4 and stacked them), a few challenges to get them square and LOTS of money spent on special screws, drill bits, caps to hide screw holes and tools i should have already had. I tried to carry way too much home with me in one trip..but made it.
PART 1 EXISTING DECK REPAIR
I had to replace the large 2x8 rotten frame I removed and install the first piece of composite fascia and figure out if my light placement was going to work. I opted for a cheap $100 set of 20 deck lights from Amazon that I could change the color on, control from a tiny remote and also connect to WIFI so I can set the lights to come on at sunset, off at midnight, etc.
Figuring out correct size to drill out for both lights and to run the cables
Deck frame repaired, threshold added and start of large box construction
LEVEL, STRAIGHT, SQUARE and IN POSITION
Lord help me, its not easy to get all 4 at the same time. Digging out the concrete bases was the worst.
SECOND BOX DONE
HAD TO PHONE A FRIEND
Because the concrete slopes downward (almost 1" from the house to the edge) I needed to 'freehand' the bottom fascia so it would cover the spacers I had to install. A friend of mine brought his table saw over and he killed the cut! Bottom fascia is PERFECT
GETTING CLOSE - MY DESIGN FAILED
My neighbor needed his chopsaw back so I had to quickly make the rest of the cuts and decided my '45 degree board change' on the bottom box design would be easier to just cut them all square and go with a picture frame. Unfortunately my framing was designed with the 45 degree turn in mind so I had to quickly improvise and add a bunch of framing material to handle the boards going a different direction.
LUCKILY, the boards all fit without additional ripping but I had to switch to 1/16" between boards instead of the 1/4" the rest of the deck used. I figure I'm the only person it will drive crazy.
FINAL PROJECT!
Ta dah! Not perfect at all but close enough. I ran out of the EXPEN$$IVE gray plugs for the boards so you can see a few screw holes but once my pocketbook recovers i'll buy another package of them and finish it up.
BONUS PICS and PUZZLE
Can you spot the hidden bug in this pic? SPOILERS - don't scroll down until you find it. I picked up a few irregular stones to use as stepping stones but still need a few more.
I wouldn't have tackled this without the help. So originally I had 3 steps that were rotten to the core thanks to a gutter joint that has been leaking for 30 years. (We only bought the house a few years ago so I'm only guilty of ignoring this for the last 6 years)
BEFORE
Pretty bad off. We poured the concrete pad long after the steps were here which is why the bottom step is even with the ground. The concrete guy used the existing bottom step for part of the framing.
DEMOLITION
The more I pulled up the worse it got. Even had to cut out a large section of the deck 2x8 frame and replace that.
DESIGN & CONSTRUCTION
Thanks to Ric Flair for the plan; I created 2 boxes (16x4 and 14x4 and stacked them), a few challenges to get them square and LOTS of money spent on special screws, drill bits, caps to hide screw holes and tools i should have already had. I tried to carry way too much home with me in one trip..but made it.
PART 1 EXISTING DECK REPAIR
I had to replace the large 2x8 rotten frame I removed and install the first piece of composite fascia and figure out if my light placement was going to work. I opted for a cheap $100 set of 20 deck lights from Amazon that I could change the color on, control from a tiny remote and also connect to WIFI so I can set the lights to come on at sunset, off at midnight, etc.
Figuring out correct size to drill out for both lights and to run the cables
Deck frame repaired, threshold added and start of large box construction
LEVEL, STRAIGHT, SQUARE and IN POSITION
Lord help me, its not easy to get all 4 at the same time. Digging out the concrete bases was the worst.
SECOND BOX DONE
HAD TO PHONE A FRIEND
Because the concrete slopes downward (almost 1" from the house to the edge) I needed to 'freehand' the bottom fascia so it would cover the spacers I had to install. A friend of mine brought his table saw over and he killed the cut!
Bottom fascia is PERFECT GETTING CLOSE - MY DESIGN FAILED
My neighbor needed his chopsaw back so I had to quickly make the rest of the cuts and decided my '45 degree board change' on the bottom box design would be easier to just cut them all square and go with a picture frame. Unfortunately my framing was designed with the 45 degree turn in mind so I had to quickly improvise and add a bunch of framing material to handle the boards going a different direction.
LUCKILY, the boards all fit without additional ripping but I had to switch to 1/16" between boards instead of the 1/4" the rest of the deck used. I figure I'm the only person it will drive crazy.
FINAL PROJECT!
Ta dah! Not perfect at all but close enough. I ran out of the EXPEN$$IVE gray plugs for the boards so you can see a few screw holes but once my pocketbook recovers i'll buy another package of them and finish it up.
BONUS PICS and PUZZLE
Can you spot the hidden bug in this pic? SPOILERS - don't scroll down until you find it. I picked up a few irregular stones to use as stepping stones but still need a few more.
This post was edited on 9/7/21 at 4:27 pm
6
Posted on 9/6/21 at 1:10 pm to CAD703X
That looks great. Well done.
Posted on 9/6/21 at 1:20 pm to CAD703X
Looks great CAD! 
Posted on 9/6/21 at 8:29 pm to CAD703X
Nice. Sorry I kinda fell off the map but things got busy and then this other thing happened.
Based on how confused you had me with the numbers you were providing I'm a little surprised it turned out so well.
Based on how confused you had me with the numbers you were providing I'm a little surprised it turned out so well.
Posted on 9/7/21 at 8:45 am to junkfunky
quote:
I'm a little surprised it turned out so well.
nobody is more surprised than me. Here are a few lessons learned the hard way:
1. Don't start a project 4 weeks before you are hosting a wedding party in the fall. Both the TN torrential flooding rain and Ida happened after I had started causing delays.
2. Youtube is great/Youtube is a cesspool. About 90% of the so-called 'deck installation' videos are doing it wrong. For instance:
- Trex calls to overlap the decking over the fascia and I'd say 2/3 of the videos I watched they screwed the fascia in around the sides afterwards creating an area where debris can build up and in general, this looks wrong.
- So many of the how-tos are using regular screws which look AWFUL IMO when done. Yes its expensive to buy fascia and deck board plugs/screw/custom bit kits but a seamless look for the plastic boards looks so much better. If you're spending a ton on composite boards, what's another $100 for an install system that hides the holes? The white fascia looked awful until I put the plugs in.
- Always check the composite vendor's website for PROPER materials, construction technique and installation so you know you're doing it right. Lowe's provides boards; they don't provide instructions.
3. No matter how sure you are that your math is good to go 'do it over' a few times.
4. Even if you plan your lighting so you are POSITIVE you will miss the 12" or 16" joists (or whatever spacing you use), if you are installing lights on an existing structure CHECK THE SPACING THERE TOO.
3 of my lights came out in the dead middle of joists and I had to make all kinds of weird holes in them while spiders and 30 year old dirt fell onto my face while i was twisted underneath and couldn't move. 
Definitely the least enjoyable part of the project. 5. Its not about just getting the frame level when you're connecting to an existing structure. You have to think about 4 different relationships:
- Level length and width including dry-setting your concrete bases several times to ensure you've dug out the holes in the correct location to fit frame and joist.
- Corollary to levelling, if your box is in space (my bottom box had nothing on the left side to gauge positioning) screw a couple of vertical boards flush with the back of the box to ensure the box is flush with the structure. I didn't realize how far off my box was until I put the top box on and wasn't flush with the fascia. Its no fun to move a 16/4 box with 12" joists. HEAVY AS shite.
- Box needs to be square even if the stucture isn't. You can use spacers to fix this issue but its alot harder if the box you built isn't square.
- For me the height was something I completely spaced on. I ended up with an 8" step drop from the deck so I had to take the top box off and screw a ton of spacers underneath the frame to add an additional inch so all 3 step downs were equal. I assumed a 2x6 with a 1" deck tread would give me proper steps but of course, the tread is more like 3/4" and the 6" is more like 5 1/2".
Anyway, it worked out in the end. 6. The 'hidden' trex t-clips kinda sucked. They didn't provide torque recommendations and I had to return the borrowed impact driver I was using so I broke some by drilling the screw too far down and it was a PITA to get it out and screw in a new one. Also the boards were not perfectly flat until so when you're running t-clips on a 16' board a few are bound to pop out or unseat from the groove in the board which is also a total PITA if you're already screwed several in. I used a spare piece of trex as a hammer and kept my knee pressed into the boards as I went to try & keep the boards straight.
7. TAKE YOUR TIME and don't be afraid to back up to fix mistakes. I had already screwed the top box to the frame & structure when I realized the step down was off. I stayed awake all night upset about it but realized it wasn't that big of a deal to take it apart and fix it the right way. If I hadn't done that I would have hated the steps forever. Going from an 8" drop to a 6 1/4" drop is noticeable. Adding a 3/4" piece of fascia trim as spacers shrank the first step to 7 1/4" and increased the second to 7". MUCH BETTER.
This post was edited on 9/7/21 at 9:12 am
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:32 am to CAD703X
stupid question of the day sponsored by yours truly:
Do they make synthetic framing for these systems? I assume you used treated lumber but it's still the weak link IMO. It also appeared you placed that lumber directly on the floor below. Did you put some sort of spacer to allow the wood to dry instead of sitting on the wet slab?
Do they make synthetic framing for these systems? I assume you used treated lumber but it's still the weak link IMO. It also appeared you placed that lumber directly on the floor below. Did you put some sort of spacer to allow the wood to dry instead of sitting on the wet slab?
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:41 am to CAD703X
Nicely done sir! Great touch with the LED lights too.
Question for you on this photo
Are those shims underneath to create a slope?
Question for you on this photo
Are those shims underneath to create a slope?
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:42 am to Stexas
quote:
Do they make synthetic framing for these systems? I assume you used treated lumber but it's still the weak link IMO. It also appeared you placed that lumber directly on the floor below. Did you put some sort of spacer to allow the wood to dry instead of sitting on the wet slab?
I bought 2 rolls of flashing and covered the joists and decking at the 'weak link' which is the corner where the gutter is. I am not done w/ that gutter..i am going to continue working on it to get the dripping resolved. Its a PITA and I probably would be better off just replacing it entirely.
There are 'elephant shims' (plastic shims) under most of the frame if you look closely but not all of them.
The back of the frame is floating in the air on the concrete bases.
So no, its not 100% protected from water but its about a billion times better than the original.
I have to replace the soffit/fascia or whatever its called the gutter is screwed into as well. That's rotten behind the gutter but that's a project for another day.
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:44 am to idlewatcher
quote:
Are those shims underneath to create a slope?
the patio is sloped so water will drain away from the house.
those shims are to make the frame itself level.
eta i used this based on a recommendation from this board
This post was edited on 9/7/21 at 9:48 am
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:50 am to CAD703X
Did anyone find the bug in the second to last pic?
Posted on 9/7/21 at 11:27 am to CAD703X
quote:
Did anyone find the bug in the second to last pic?
On the gutter
Posted on 9/7/21 at 12:36 pm to idlewatcher
Posted on 9/7/21 at 1:05 pm to CAD703X
All insect searches aside, you did a great job
Posted on 9/7/21 at 7:40 pm to CAD703X
Looks great! I actually like the picture frame look of the outside board with the 45 degree cut and the inner boards running parallel. Good call on making the top box shorter, gives it a more custom look. I can’t image how much money you spent on lumbar for this project, for just “a couple of steps”, but the finished project looks awesome.
Posted on 9/7/21 at 9:39 pm to Ric Flair
quote:
Good call on making the top box shorter,
I kept it the same size you recommended..I just shoved it down because there was no point in centering it when no one will walk down on the side that's up against the house. I liked how it created an implied path at 90 degrees towards the back of the porch so I added stepping stones and plan to make that area nicer.
quote:thank you. All in close to $1k including composite and the weirdo stuff I was constantly buying on Amazon like 3 different types of screws. The wife must never find out how much this actually ended up costing.
can’t image how much money you spent on lumbar for this project, for just “a couple of steps”, but the finished project looks awesome.
This post was edited on 9/8/21 at 10:04 am
Posted on 9/8/21 at 9:27 am to CAD703X
quote:
The wife must never find out how much this actually ended up costing.
isnt that every project
overall you did a great job
Posted on 9/8/21 at 10:24 am to CAD703X
Nice work!
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