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Started By
Message
Am I allowed to attach things to my utility meters?
Posted on 1/14/23 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 1/14/23 at 7:41 pm
Specifically monitoring devices.
I've had a Flume water meter monitor on my water meter for over a year without issue. It doesn't go inline, it just straps to the outside of the meter and measures passively. I actually caught the meter readers one day and they hadn't even noticed it (I guess they read it wirelessly). I showed it to them, explained what it does, and they thought it was cool.
I measure my electricity consumption at the panel inside the house, so no issue there.
I'm concerned about the gas meter, though. I haven't found a commercial monitor, but I have verified with my phone's magnetometer that I can measure the fluctuating magnetic field as it spins. That means I can build a cheap device that attaches to it to measure my consumption in real time, much like the Flume meter. It won't block the dials so they can still easily read the meter, but it will be an obviously homemade electronic device strapped to it.
I guess my question is, if they hassle me about it, do I have any legal grounds to attach things to my utility meters? I've already dealt with them about a different issue... apparently they are unable or unwilling to bypass a "beware of dog" sign to read a meter even after it has been explained that the sign is for security purposes, the dog is not a threat, and has lived there for 4 years without issue.
I've had a Flume water meter monitor on my water meter for over a year without issue. It doesn't go inline, it just straps to the outside of the meter and measures passively. I actually caught the meter readers one day and they hadn't even noticed it (I guess they read it wirelessly). I showed it to them, explained what it does, and they thought it was cool.
I measure my electricity consumption at the panel inside the house, so no issue there.
I'm concerned about the gas meter, though. I haven't found a commercial monitor, but I have verified with my phone's magnetometer that I can measure the fluctuating magnetic field as it spins. That means I can build a cheap device that attaches to it to measure my consumption in real time, much like the Flume meter. It won't block the dials so they can still easily read the meter, but it will be an obviously homemade electronic device strapped to it.
I guess my question is, if they hassle me about it, do I have any legal grounds to attach things to my utility meters? I've already dealt with them about a different issue... apparently they are unable or unwilling to bypass a "beware of dog" sign to read a meter even after it has been explained that the sign is for security purposes, the dog is not a threat, and has lived there for 4 years without issue.
9
Posted on 1/14/23 at 7:51 pm to Korkstand
This sounds like one of those forgiveness over permission situations.
If it is on your side of the meter there is nothing they can do. If you are physically attaching to the meter I would think they may have some issues.
If it is on your side of the meter there is nothing they can do. If you are physically attaching to the meter I would think they may have some issues.
This post was edited on 1/14/23 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 1/14/23 at 8:05 pm to fightin tigers
quote:Oh I will definitely do it without asking first.
This sounds like one of those forgiveness over permission situations.
quote:Attaching to the meter is the only safe and sensible way to do it.
If it is on your side of the meter there is nothing they can do. If you are physically attaching to the meter I would think they may have some issues.
I figure I'll have to talk to somebody about it eventually. I'm hoping the law is on my side, but if not I'll try the low-key friends in high places route, and if that fails I'll resort to getting loud about it in public.
In addition to real-time cost monitoring, I think there are legitimate safety applications here.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 8:38 pm to Korkstand
Who is your gas provider? I have Atmos and can see a daily use chart on my account page. I know they don't come out everyday and read my meter so they must do it remotely.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 8:53 pm to weadjust
City utilities, they come out and read it manually.
Daily usage wouldn't be granular enough for me anyway. I'm going to get real time consumption with readings probably every 10 seconds or so. The goal is to measure cost to run water heaters, furnace, fireplace, etc as well as to hopefully detect leaks and pilot light flameouts. I don't know if I'll be able to detect a leak before I can smell it (or when we are away), or if pilot lights even burn enough to be detectable within a few hours, but I'm going to try.
Daily usage wouldn't be granular enough for me anyway. I'm going to get real time consumption with readings probably every 10 seconds or so. The goal is to measure cost to run water heaters, furnace, fireplace, etc as well as to hopefully detect leaks and pilot light flameouts. I don't know if I'll be able to detect a leak before I can smell it (or when we are away), or if pilot lights even burn enough to be detectable within a few hours, but I'm going to try.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:09 pm to Korkstand
quote:
it will be an obviously homemade electronic device strapped to it.
Pretty sure that will land you on a no-fly list.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 10:28 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I've had a Flume water meter monitor on my water meter for over a year without issue.
How often do you need to change batteries?
Posted on 1/14/23 at 10:43 pm to hob
quote:I installed it Oct '21 and the batteries died Dec '22, so I got a bit over a year out of the first pack. They want you to buy their replacement pack for $15, but instead I decided to swap the AA's in my pack. It had non-rechargeable lithium cells, and they warn against using alkaline, but I tried alkalines anyway just to test. They are working perfectly, but I think they won't last as long as the lithium ones. $15 is really not a bad price for 4 lithium AA's in a plastic pack, I might just buy from Flume when these die. I might even get 2 packs since the device can take 2 at once to get about 2 years before changing them again.
How often do you need to change batteries?
Posted on 1/15/23 at 2:48 am to Korkstand
I spent a career in Liquid and Gas Measurement. This is what you are looking for if you want any sort of accuracy to compare against the gas company meter.
Clamp on Ultra Sonic
Clamp on Ultra Sonic
Posted on 1/15/23 at 11:36 am to LsuFan_1955
Looks cool but I'm going to do this for tens of dollars rather than thousands. I think I'll get within a percent or two of what I'm billed for.
To clarify, I'm not trying to check the accuracy of the utility meter. I just want to know what it measures, automatically and in real time. My goals are to estimate upcoming bills, as well as integrate the data into my larger home automation system.
To clarify, I'm not trying to check the accuracy of the utility meter. I just want to know what it measures, automatically and in real time. My goals are to estimate upcoming bills, as well as integrate the data into my larger home automation system.
This post was edited on 1/15/23 at 11:48 am
Posted on 1/15/23 at 12:48 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 1/15/23 at 1:59 pm to Coppertop
Oh, I'm not changing or adding a meter, I'm just going to detect what my existing meter is measuring. I'm looking at a cost of less than $50 in parts.
I'll update with some photos, videos, and data when I'm finished.
I'll update with some photos, videos, and data when I'm finished.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 4:18 pm to Korkstand
quote:
integrate the data into my larger home automation system.
One day when I've got some play money to spend, I'm doing this
Posted on 1/15/23 at 4:29 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I installed it Oct '21 and the batteries died Dec '22, so I got a bit over a year out of the first pack. They want you to buy their replacement pack for $15, but instead I decided to swap the AA's in my pack. It had non-rechargeable lithium cells, and they warn against using alkaline, but I tried alkalines anyway just to test. They are working perfectly, but I think they won't last as long as the lithium ones. $15 is really not a bad price for 4 lithium AA's in a plastic pack, I might just buy from Flume when these die. I might even get 2 packs since the device can take 2 at once to get about 2 years before changing them again.
Thanks for the feedback.
My first set of batteries lasted about 3 months. Like you I replaced the batteries but used 4 lithiums. Since then I've never had them last longer than 1.5-2 months. I also bought an extra pack from Flume. It wasn't the same battery pack. Instead it was a custom enclosed pack. It's sitting on my bench and I haven't opened it yet.
I'll try to move the bridge closer to the sensor.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 4:37 pm to hob
quote:Dang. I noticed that some people had that issue when I was researching, but I didn't look to see if there was a solution since I didn't have that problem.
My first set of batteries lasted about 3 months. Like you I replaced the batteries but used 4 lithiums. Since then I've never had them last longer than 1.5-2 months.
quote:Worth a shot I guess. Mine is only about 30 feet from the meter, but I can't imagine being further away would use that much more power. Maybe so though.
I'll try to move the bridge closer to the sensor.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 5:05 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:I kind of hate the state of commercial smart home and automation gear, but I love all the DIY stuff.quote:One day when I've got some play money to spend, I'm doing this
integrate the data into my larger home automation system.
Install Home Assistant on an old PC (or Raspberry Pi or whatever), buy a 5-pack of NodeMCU boards (maybe $30), a variety pack of sensors (maybe another $30), some breadboards and jumper wires, and you're off to the races. You can do whatever you can dream up, and it's cheap.
Right now I'm making a bed occupancy sensor using some homemade capacitive pressure pads made out of aluminum foil. Total parts will cost about $10. ESPHome makes it super easy to program these things and get the data to Home Assistant, and once there I can use it to trigger automations. If we're both in bed, lock the doors and set the alarm. If one of us gets up at night, turn on very dim lighting to light the way to the bathroom. Or if I get in bed and forget to plug in my phone, send a notification to remind me.
It takes some time to get into it and to build some things, but if you follow a guide or a video it's not too bad plus it's fun IMO. And you end up being able to do cool things that you can't do by buying a commercial product.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 5:46 pm to Korkstand
You own everything past the meter so I would just strap it downstream.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:09 pm to Pintail
quote:It has to be *on* the meter because that is what is putting out the signals that I will detect. I don't know how the internals of the meters work, but something in there is spinning a magnetic field. You can test your own meter using your cell phone. Get one of the 'sensors' apps which gives you access to the raw data from your phone's magnetometer. Light the stove or otherwise get some gas flowing, then put your phone up against your meter. You should see the phone register a magnetic field of fluctuating strength. I don't know if all meters do it, but mine certainly does. From a quick test it looks like mine does 8 (or 4) rotations (peak and trough cycles in field strength) per cubic foot. Thankfully I get similar readings on the back side of the meter, so I think I'll be able to hide my sensor.
You own everything past the meter so I would just strap it downstream.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:12 pm to Korkstand
I'm assuming you are using an ultrasonic for the water meter?
Same should be available for gas, but not sure if that is accesible on a retail market.
Same should be available for gas, but not sure if that is accesible on a retail market.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:17 pm to Korkstand
quote:Just as an example of how easy this stuff is, I had not yet started working on this project before my last post. I had all the materials and components, but no work done. One hour later I have finished making the first pressure pad, wired it up to the controller, programmed the controller via ESPHome, tested readings, set a threshold value, and integrated it into Home Assistant. Now I have a cute little icon in my phone app that tells whether I'm in bed or not, and in a couple minutes I can have any number of things happen in my house based on that simple switch.
Right now I'm making a bed occupancy sensor using some homemade capacitive pressure pads made out of aluminum foil.
Back on topic, after I get my gas flow sensor working I will probably incorporate that into an automation in combination with the bed sensor. A certain gas flow rate will correlate with running the gas fireplace, and I'll have a similar "switch" in Home Assistant to indicate whether it's running or not. If I get in bed with the fireplace still burning, I'll get a notification on my phone saying "HEY DUMBASS YOU LEFT THE FIRE ON".
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