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AFCI - Breaker keeps tripping.

Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:28 pm
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:28 pm
Have a AFCI breaker that keeps tripping. Not the breaker, swapped wires to a different breaker and same issue. Started off with tripping every few days and now it will not stay powered on.

After pulling the wires on what I assumed was the middle of the circuit the trips became better, basically took a minute to trip rather than tripping right away.

Does anyone have recs on how to find the issue or is pulling each receptacle, one by one, the only solution? All the outlets were empty and light switches turned off.
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 9:30 pm
Posted by b-rab2
N. Louisiana
Member since Dec 2005
12577 posts
Posted on 8/6/19 at 9:33 pm to
sounds like you have shot somewhere.. I am no help sorry.
Posted by papasmurf1269
Hells Pass
Member since Apr 2005
20910 posts
Posted on 8/6/19 at 10:11 pm to
You probably have a staple that’s stapled too hard. You can always just put a regular breaker in there. Not saying I suggest that but I don’t think it would hurt anything.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 9:56 am to
Yeah, tried this troubleshooting method this earlier. Think the AFCI is telling the truth. Regular breaker stayed on for several minutes....then a pop....then the breaker tripped.
Posted by PJinAtl
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2007
12760 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 10:05 am to
Have you hung any pictures or done anything else that penetrated the walls where the circuit runs that could have clipped one of the wires?

What is the brand of AFCI breaker? I know the ones that our builder installed are Eaton AFCIs, and each breaker has a small red light on it that will blink when it trips. The sequence of blinks tells you why it tripped. I would think you would know if yours had this feature though.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 11:02 am to
Lots of renovation. Installed new sheathing and siding as well. The possibilty of nicking a wire is there and seems the most likely now.

Now to track it down. Hopefully it is an easy stretch to replace.
Posted by ItzMe1972
Member since Dec 2013
9822 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 11:06 am to
Don’t rule out the expertise of an electrician.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 11:14 am to
Have a couple that are friends/family that have given some direction. None live in the area to come and look at it to give a definite answer
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
16625 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 1:38 pm to
Fixed this issue last week for a client. GFCI outlet (one of three) in the garage would stay tripped. Nothing wrong with the outlet at all, turned out to be the fault of a lazy contractor and electrician who had installed a seperate circuit for a backyard water feature. The pump was originally plugged into an extension cord that was direct buried then plugged into an exterior outlet. They just cut the extension cord and left it buried and plugged in when they ran the new circuit, when enough rain had saturated the ground it started tripping. If you've had any recent work done then it's possible to have had a line damaged. I've also seen the same with exterior outlets in decks and patios where the seal had deteriorated with age and would just let water in until corrosion became the issue. Unfortunately without specific test equipment that's generally beyond what even a dedicated DIYer would invest in, it's hard to trace live wire faults inside of walls, attics, etc.
Posted by NATidefan
Two hours North of Birmingham
Member since Dec 2008
36107 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 5:01 pm to
Make sure nothing is plugged into the circuit and make sure the breaker is off.

Use an ohm meter to check for a short by touching the leads to the black wire and white wire. Then black to ground. Then white to ground.

If there is a short. Start unhooking wires from each outlet, switch, light, etc. And then check for the short using the same method.

This well help you figure out what stretch of wire your short is in.

Now if you dont find a short with the ohm meter, theres a possibility its arching somewhere. That's a little hard to find.

In that case, you can start with leaving the outlet, switch, whatever the the line runs to first connected. Then unhooking the rest of the circuit that feeds the other outlets, etc.

Cut the power on and see if it trips. If it doesnt, the. You know that stretch is good.

Then go to the next outlet etc and do the same thing. Keep working down the line until it trips. That well help you locate the stretch were it may be arching.


This post was edited on 8/7/19 at 5:51 pm
Posted by NATidefan
Two hours North of Birmingham
Member since Dec 2008
36107 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

Unfortunately without specific test equipment that's generally beyond what even a dedicated DIYer would invest in, it's hard to trace live wire faults inside of walls, attics, etc.


All you need is a multimeter with the ability to test resistance (ohm meter). They are like 20 bucks or so.


Eta: walmart 12 bucks.

LINK
This post was edited on 8/7/19 at 5:29 pm
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

In that case, you can start with leaving the outlet, switch, whatever the the line runs to first connected. Then unhooking the rest of the circuit that feeds the other outlets, etc.

Cut the power on and see if it trips. If it doesnt, the. You know that stretch is good.

Then go to the next outlet etc and do the same thing. Keep working down the line until it trips. That well help you locate the stretch were it may be arching.


Yep. This is my MO right now. Will check continuity and ohm, but it almost seems like this thing is intermittent or going to be really low. Almost like it needs to heat up or will look like background noise on a meter.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
30540 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 6:44 pm to
quote:

Use an ohm meter to check for a short by touching the leads to the black wire and white wire. Then black to ground. Then white to ground.


There is a reasonably good chance that white and ground are bonded at the main box so that would read like a short anyway. But black to white should give you an infinite reading if nothing is connected to the circuit. If it reads anything, verify nothing is plugged in or switched on. Any coil on the circuit may look a lot like a short,
Posted by NATidefan
Two hours North of Birmingham
Member since Dec 2008
36107 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 6:48 pm to
Good luck! I know that's a pain in the butt.
Posted by NATidefan
Two hours North of Birmingham
Member since Dec 2008
36107 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 6:54 pm to
quote:


There is a reasonably good chance that white and ground are bonded at the main box so that would read like a short anyway. 


Yeah, that's true.
Posted by Miketheseventh
Member since Dec 2017
5807 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 7:52 pm to
Best thing to do is get rid of that arc fault breaker and install a normal one. They are required to pass code but after that I would get rid of them as you start having problems with them. If it is a true fault on the circuit it will trip a normal breaker also
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

Best thing to do is get rid of that arc fault breaker and install a normal one


Did that. Blew the normal breaker after about 20 minutes. Heard a muffled *pop* before the old style breaker blew.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
73681 posts
Posted on 8/7/19 at 8:13 pm to
quote:

Yeah, that's true.


They arent connected now


Removed the wires from the breaker. Got scared it would burn it down.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
30540 posts
Posted on 8/8/19 at 6:25 am to
quote:

Removed the wires from the breaker. Got scared it would burn it down.



If you pulled the wires from the breaker, then the white should show infinite to ground as well as the black. Any current reading between any pair indicates a problem.

Since it take so long, I would suspect it is something plugged/wired into the circuit, though a "bleed" to ground could cause this issue (a nail or such that just nicked a wires insulation). Do you have anything on the circuit like dimmer switches, lighted switches or maybe outlets with lights or usb power plug ins? Is it possible that circuit powers up anything in the attic or a doorbell transformer? Just trying to think what may be causing the issues. Another possibility is you have some loose connections but that would likely only cause an issue if it is powering something.

These types of issues are a PIA. If you can afford to do it, calling an electrician may save you some headaches.
Posted by Miketheseventh
Member since Dec 2017
5807 posts
Posted on 8/9/19 at 5:32 am to
Then it is time to do what NAT and FT said to do. You need to find and isolate the problem. Sorry but at this point that is your only option
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