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Message
re: The Greyskull Methods- A Primer
Posted on 3/18/25 at 11:11 am to lsu777
Posted on 3/18/25 at 11:11 am to lsu777
quote:
15 or 20, whatever you feel is better for you. as far as absolute last rep failure, i only recommend that when its someone like you that has been at it a while so if you can, yes i think it will be better
as far as deads, if you hit 8 reps and feel like you could have done way more, double progression.
Thanks I am going to try it out. The gym better get ready to buy some new UHMW for their spotter arms after I'm done with this?
Will do that with deads, but cut them at 8. Do you think maybe I should reset 10% on deads so that I am closer to 8? or would it be a nice little deload almost to drop it 15% and keep it at 8 for a few weeks, doubling the progression until I get back to a hard set of 8? I know GS doesn't recommend deloads, but life hasn't given me a deload in a few years since I just refuse to skip a day.
quote:
no both ways work. i actually prefer 10 sets of 5 at heavier weight(boring but strong protocol) for press as i do feel its better but its a lot of sets that most dont want to do. but both ways work great
I've been doing it this way and then adding reps on press and sets on bench until I get to 10x10, then go up in weight. Same with squats and deads. I will switch the deads to rack pulls though. Is the squat supposed to be done very explosively as well? or is that just bench and press(go down, pause, then explode up) for the 5x10 squats no pause or 5x5 squats paused, should I explode up?
Also, i superset my bench with kroc rows and chins with presses and GHR with the 5x10 squats. Nothing for deads. Should I superset something with the rack pulls? And is it adviseable to superset the GHR with squats?
quote:
either is fine. deadlift volume can play hell with lower back especially a strong person. I personally prefer right below the knee but depends...do you struggle with lockout, middle or off the floor. attack the weakness
This is really wise words. Didn't think of that myself, thanks! As for DL volume I always wanted to ask. In some of the other routines in the "how to add accesory movements" a handful of the fullbody routines are on an AB or a1/b1/a2/b2 scheudle so your doing amrap deads 2x a week sometimes. Was that just a typo since you were working so hard on providing in that thread and its really supposed to be squats 2x per week and deads (or dead variation) 1x per week or is going 50/50 on squat deadlift days the recommended for those routines?
1
Posted on 3/18/25 at 11:16 am to geux2019
quote:
quote:
15 or 20, whatever you feel is better for you. as far as absolute last rep failure, i only recommend that when its someone like you that has been at it a while so if you can, yes i think it will be better
as far as deads, if you hit 8 reps and feel like you could have done way more, double progression.
Thanks I am going to try it out. The gym better get ready to buy some new UHMW for their spotter arms after I'm done with this?
Will do that with deads, but cut them at 8. Do you think maybe I should reset 10% on deads so that I am closer to 8? or would it be a nice little deload almost to drop it 15% and keep it at 8 for a few weeks, doubling the progression until I get back to a hard set of 8? I know GS doesn't recommend deloads, but life hasn't given me a deload in a few years since I just refuse to skip a day.
quote:
i would do the 15 since you havent had a deload in a long time
quote:
I've been doing it this way and then adding reps on press and sets on bench until I get to 10x10, then go up in weight. Same with squats and deads. I will switch the deads to rack pulls though. Is the squat supposed to be done very explosively as well?
this is a very good method, double progression and yes squats should be as explosive after the pause as possible
quote:
Also, i superset my bench with kroc rows and chins with presses and GHR with the 5x10 squats. Nothing for deads. Should I superset something with the rack pulls? And is it adviseable to superset the GHR with squats?
fine not supersetting when doing rack pulls. if you want, can do some band pull aparts
quote:
This is really wise words. Didn't think of that myself, thanks! As for DL volume I always wanted to ask. In some of the other routines in the "how to add accesory movements" a handful of the fullbody routines are on an AB or a1/b1/a2/b2 scheudle so your doing amrap deads 2x a week sometimes. Was that just a typo since you were working so hard on providing in that thread and its really supposed to be squats 2x per week and deads (or dead variation) 1x per week or is going 50/50 on squat deadlift days the recommended for those routines?
i would keep deads at 1 time a week for now. you can do the A/B schedule and put rack pulls with gslp squat and 5x5 squats with gslp deads but prolly too much with your level of lifting so keep deads at 1x per week, squats 2x. roatate bench/press though
Posted on 3/18/25 at 11:25 am to lsu777
quote:
i would do the 15 since you havent had a deload in a long time
Thanks and moving forward do that as well? Or drop it to 10%?
quote:
fine not supersetting when doing rack pulls. if you want, can do some band pull aparts
Great idea, didn't think of this but will be great to get some extra rear delt work in. but GHR with squats is fine?
quote:
i would keep deads at 1 time a week for now. you can do the A/B schedule and put rack pulls with gslp squat and 5x5 squats with gslp deads but prolly too much with your level of lifting so keep deads at 1x per week, squats 2x. roatate bench/press though
I will stick to this plan then. Thanks a lot for all the responses.
Just since I have wondered for a long time and I know you are an expert on all the GSLP principles. Even though you don't use swole. What would you say a "hand sized portion) of meat is in raw ounces? And same with a fist size portion of carbs. Since I was trying to play around with this a while back and ended up with like 600 G of protein per day and 400G of fats and 800 G of carbs(all without layering in any oils or extra shakes) since I clearly have some sort of problem with associating shapes and sizes.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 12:48 pm to geux2019
quote:
Thanks and moving forward do that as well? Or drop it to 10%?
play it by how you feel but eventually you will have to move to more reverse pyramid style sets, not gonna be able to LP forever. then that will stop working and you will have to move to more % based monthly progression
quote:
but GHR with squats is fine?
yea for the 5x5 absolutely
quote:
Just since I have wondered for a long time and I know you are an expert on all the GSLP principles. Even though you don't use swole. What would you say a "hand sized portion) of meat is in raw ounces? And same with a fist size portion of carbs. Since I was trying to play around with this a while back and ended up with like 600 G of protein per day and 400G of fats and 800 G of carbs(all without layering in any oils or extra shakes) since I clearly have some sort of problem with associating shapes and sizes.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 3/18/25 at 1:54 pm to lsu777
quote:
play it by how you feel but eventually you will have to move to more reverse pyramid style sets, not gonna be able to LP forever. then that will stop working and you will have to move to more % based monthly progression
Thanks. I have kind of been going back and forth between the 3 I do lp for a few months full body, then go to LCI cut a bit and do Pyramids, then go to Upper lower rest pause for a bit. Then back to straight sets and LP, but I am going to look into monthly progressions more too maybe something like 5/3/1 for my main lifts but keep the grey skull FM and cardio stuff in.
quote:
yea for the 5x5 absolutely
What about for 5x10?
and I was way off with my portion sizes
Posted on 3/18/25 at 2:32 pm to geux2019
quote:
Thanks. I have kind of been going back and forth between the 3 I do lp for a few months full body, then go to LCI cut a bit and do Pyramids, then go to Upper lower rest pause for a bit. Then back to straight sets and LP, but I am going to look into monthly progressions more too maybe something like 5/3/1 for my main lifts but keep the grey skull FM and cardio stuff in.
yea i mean i would milk the LP for as much as its worth. i still go back every once and a while and try to really drive up strength. I do it too many times during cutting phases to just maintain
531 or the ppsa programs using 531 progression is good way to go. so is powerbuilding DC style progression like the greyskull PB book
quote:
What about for 5x10?
yea fine...i just meant be careful during the LP sets. but if you dont do a good job of recruiting hamstrings in the squat( they are not a primary anyways) then you can actually do them first to activate the hams.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 2:44 pm to lsu777
quote:
yea i mean i would milk the LP for as much as its worth. i still go back every once and a while and try to really drive up strength. I do it too many times during cutting phases to just maintain
531 or the ppsa programs using 531 progression is good way to go. so is powerbuilding DC style progression like the greyskull PB book
That is exactly what I do during cuts as well, then when I reverse out of my cuts I do LP again to regain strength. I am stoked to hear you do something similar, means I figured out something good to do on my own.
Once I get stalled again I will look into the 4 options more.
quote:
yea fine...i just meant be careful during the LP sets. but if you dont do a good job of recruiting hamstrings in the squat( they are not a primary anyways) then you can actually do them first to activate the hams.
So I am actually a low bar squatter so I get a good amount of hamstring involvement. So maybe I should be a bit more careful with these. I don't actually superset anything with my LP sets for the big 4. ONly for the 5x10 backoff style sets. Do you recommend I superset stuff with the main 2 lifts of the day?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 3:03 pm to geux2019
quote:
So I am actually a low bar squatter so I get a good amount of hamstring involvement. So maybe I should be a bit more careful with these. I don't actually superset anything with my LP sets for the big 4. ONly for the 5x10 backoff style sets. Do you recommend I superset stuff with the main 2 lifts of the day?
na just do it with the 5x5 and 5x10 sets.
dont be scared to rest 5 min before last gslp set either. get to absolute full recovery.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 9:14 pm to lsu777
Thanks that is exactly what I'll do. If I need 7-8 minutes same deal? And for the first 2 sets say I am doing 2x5, 5+ but my plus set is going to be a 6 even with a full recovery. Should I rest to full recovery between the first 2 or stick to 2 min rest?
Also, for HIIT what is the protocol for switching up HIIT routines from the viking books. Is it OK just to cycle through them so if doing 3 per week ever 33 weeks you get through all 100? Or is it better to pick 3(or a different number) and stick with those for a certain number of months(if this is the case how many months).
Also, for HIIT what is the protocol for switching up HIIT routines from the viking books. Is it OK just to cycle through them so if doing 3 per week ever 33 weeks you get through all 100? Or is it better to pick 3(or a different number) and stick with those for a certain number of months(if this is the case how many months).
This post was edited on 3/19/25 at 2:33 am
Posted on 3/19/25 at 7:25 am to geux2019
quote:
Thanks that is exactly what I'll do. If I need 7-8 minutes same deal?
same deal
quote:
I am doing 2x5, 5+ but my plus set is going to be a 6 even with a full recovery. Should I rest to full recovery between the first 2 or stick to 2 min rest?
i would rest 3 min on first two and then whatever is needed for the last set
quote:
Also, for HIIT what is the protocol for switching up HIIT routines from the viking books. Is it OK just to cycle through them so if doing 3 per week ever 33 weeks you get through all 100? Or is it better to pick 3(or a different number) and stick with those for a certain number of months(if this is the case how many months).
either works but set a hard time limit of 12 min. so even if you dont finish...you are done then. as you get deeper into a cut, have to start scaling that back to 10 and then 8 min as you get deeper and deeper and recovery starts to suffer
Posted on 3/19/25 at 12:30 pm to lsu777
quote:
i would rest 3 min on first two and then whatever is needed for the last set
Thanks so the idea is if I need more than 3 min to get through those warmup sets and have enough energy to hit the amrap-its too heavy and I should start the reset?
quote:
either works but set a hard time limit of 12 min. so even if you dont finish...you are done then. as you get deeper into a cut, have to start scaling that back to 10 and then 8 min as you get deeper and deeper and recovery starts to suffer
I like the idea of lowering it over time in my cut. Thanks. In your training how long do you or did you generally keep a particular HIIT workout in before changing it up?
Posted on 3/19/25 at 1:57 pm to geux2019
quote:
Thanks so the idea is if I need more than 3 min to get through those warmup sets and have enough energy to hit the amrap-its too heavy and I should start the reset?
no idea is to rest as long as needed to get through the sets. 3 min is just starting point. if you need 5 each set, so what. i would not go above 5 min and 7-8 min for amrap though. if that is the case time for reset, otherwise keep stacking weight until you cant anymore;
quote:
I like the idea of lowering it over time in my cut. Thanks. In your training how long do you or did you generally keep a particular HIIT workout in before changing it up?
i personally like to keep the same ones for a block, so like 6 weeks. Also i cant do ones with burpees or i get knee tendonitis quickly.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 4:41 pm to lsu777
I will stick to these guidelines. I want to give you a very big thank you for all the time you have given me. You were an invaluable resource. Hope to speak again soon and I hope you have a very blessed weekend.
I did have 1 more question. I read a while back about you saying to do after DL.
"for deads, i suggest..3 ladders of 1/2/3 progressing until you feel like you cant complete next ladder."
These seem interesting to me as well, but I don't fully understand how to do these. I guess you would take 50% of amrap set then do a set of 1, wait a minute set of 2, wait a min set of 3, wait a min, and repeat it 2 more times? so 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3?
And I know the 10x5 pressing/bench is to be done with press after press or after bench. For squat and deadlift stuff is that interchangeable as well like 10x5 squat after deads, rack pulls after squats? OR just keep squats after squats and rack pulls after deads?
I did have 1 more question. I read a while back about you saying to do after DL.
"for deads, i suggest..3 ladders of 1/2/3 progressing until you feel like you cant complete next ladder."
These seem interesting to me as well, but I don't fully understand how to do these. I guess you would take 50% of amrap set then do a set of 1, wait a minute set of 2, wait a min set of 3, wait a min, and repeat it 2 more times? so 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3?
And I know the 10x5 pressing/bench is to be done with press after press or after bench. For squat and deadlift stuff is that interchangeable as well like 10x5 squat after deads, rack pulls after squats? OR just keep squats after squats and rack pulls after deads?
This post was edited on 3/19/25 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 3/20/25 at 7:06 am to geux2019
quote:
I will stick to these guidelines. I want to give you a very big thank you for all the time you have given me. You were an invaluable resource. Hope to speak again soon and I hope you have a very blessed weekend.
I did have 1 more question. I read a while back about you saying to do after DL.
"for deads, i suggest..3 ladders of 1/2/3 progressing until you feel like you cant complete next ladder."
These seem interesting to me as well, but I don't fully understand how to do these. I guess you would take 50% of amrap set then do a set of 1, wait a minute set of 2, wait a min set of 3, wait a min, and repeat it 2 more times? so 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3?
And I know the 10x5 pressing/bench is to be done with press after press or after bench. For squat and deadlift stuff is that interchangeable as well like 10x5 squat after deads, rack pulls after squats? OR just keep squats after squats and rack pulls after deads?
there are two ways to do this, 1st way is you add weight every time while lowering the rep, or 2nd way you keep weight the same. dead lift ladders are more of a peaking protocol but are also good for adding volume and handling heavy weights, similar to what joker sets in 531 are used for
1st way example-
lets say your dead lift max is 315- all of these are pulled for speed
ladder 1- 3 reps with 255, rest, 2 reps with 275, rest, 1 rep with 295
ladder 2- 3 reps with 275, rest, 2 reps with 295, rest, 1 rep with 305
ladder 3- 3 reps 295, rest, 2 reps with 305, rest, 1 rep 315....if you get it, go to ladder 4
method #2-
ladder 1- 3 reps with 275, rest, 2 reps with 275, rest,1 with 275
ladder 2- repeat at 295
ladder 3- repeat at 305
ladder 4- repeat at 315
the weights are just estimates, dont try and pull % and say...got to do this. go to get a feel for it. 1st ladder the weight should be flying up, 2nd a little slower, 3rd ever slower.....so on and so fourth
Posted on 3/20/25 at 10:41 am to lsu777
Thanks a lot. I will try out both methods over time. So the idea is to try and essentially shoot for(if possible) our true 1rm for the end of the last ladder and possibly even PR if possible. or in that 315 example 315 wasn't our actual 1rm but our training 5+ weight?
Also, in the adding volume intelligently section I see you have recommendations for a few accessories, and I just want to confirm I have them correct. After some googling I found:
Tabata(BB/KB/DB): So for this I would just pick a tabat exercise that is similar to the main lift. So press day Tabata protocol with Kb jerks, or DB press, or z press, deadlift: good mornings, kb swings, etc
or even something like front squats on the 20 seconds of work and KB swings on the 10 sec rest). Or doing it for accesories like tabata pullups or tabata curls or tabata calves.
Death by (bb/kb/DB), this is basically just pick an exercise do 1 rep emoms but go up 1 rep every minute, so like deadlift x 1, remainder of minute rest, deadlift x 2 remainder of minute rest, etc. Do this for any lift that pertains to main lift or accesory (like kb swings for deads, front squats on squat, pullups, curls, rows, calves, etc).
For these what sort of load are we looking at for the main lifts. Should for deadlifts/squats/etc I be looking at doing a 30 minute session of these with a light weight, a 10 min GSLP typical HIIT session type weight or really heavy where I am really only going to be getting 3-4 rounds?
For aceesrories something like curls and calves or even rows or pushups same question as above, what time frame and Would it be better to start with say 10 on the emom, then go up 1 rep each time. or better to start with say 5 then go up 3 each time or something like that?
max reps: Just pick a weight and bust arse with that weight for as many reps as you can before you need to rerack the weight? so like a widowmaker of squats or loading up 315 on deads and shooting for 30 reps. or doing as many pullups or curls as you can before having to let go of the bar? If so should these be done for multiple sets? How much rest in between? what sort of reps are we aiming for?
Max reps per minute: I am not certain of these. Could you please explain or direct me to where I could learn about this protocol.
Also, in the adding volume intelligently section I see you have recommendations for a few accessories, and I just want to confirm I have them correct. After some googling I found:
Tabata(BB/KB/DB): So for this I would just pick a tabat exercise that is similar to the main lift. So press day Tabata protocol with Kb jerks, or DB press, or z press, deadlift: good mornings, kb swings, etc
or even something like front squats on the 20 seconds of work and KB swings on the 10 sec rest). Or doing it for accesories like tabata pullups or tabata curls or tabata calves.
Death by (bb/kb/DB), this is basically just pick an exercise do 1 rep emoms but go up 1 rep every minute, so like deadlift x 1, remainder of minute rest, deadlift x 2 remainder of minute rest, etc. Do this for any lift that pertains to main lift or accesory (like kb swings for deads, front squats on squat, pullups, curls, rows, calves, etc).
For these what sort of load are we looking at for the main lifts. Should for deadlifts/squats/etc I be looking at doing a 30 minute session of these with a light weight, a 10 min GSLP typical HIIT session type weight or really heavy where I am really only going to be getting 3-4 rounds?
For aceesrories something like curls and calves or even rows or pushups same question as above, what time frame and Would it be better to start with say 10 on the emom, then go up 1 rep each time. or better to start with say 5 then go up 3 each time or something like that?
max reps: Just pick a weight and bust arse with that weight for as many reps as you can before you need to rerack the weight? so like a widowmaker of squats or loading up 315 on deads and shooting for 30 reps. or doing as many pullups or curls as you can before having to let go of the bar? If so should these be done for multiple sets? How much rest in between? what sort of reps are we aiming for?
Max reps per minute: I am not certain of these. Could you please explain or direct me to where I could learn about this protocol.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 10:53 am to geux2019
quote:
Thanks a lot. I will try out both methods over time. So the idea is to try and essentially shoot for(if possible) our true 1rm for the end of the last ladder and possibly even PR if possible. or in that 315 example 315 wasn't our actual 1rm but our training 5+ weight?
sorry more like that is your training max so like 90% of 1rm.
quote:
Tabata(BB/KB/DB): So for this I would just pick a tabat exercise that is similar to the main lift. So press day Tabata protocol with Kb jerks, or DB press, or z press, deadlift: good mornings, kb swings, etc
or even something like front squats on the 20 seconds of work and KB swings on the 10 sec rest). Or doing it for accesories like tabata pullups or tabata curls or tabata calves.
yep that works
quote:
Death by (bb/kb/DB), this is basically just pick an exercise do 1 rep emoms but go up 1 rep every minute, so like deadlift x 1, remainder of minute rest, deadlift x 2 remainder of minute rest, etc. Do this for any lift that pertains to main lift or accesory (like kb swings for deads, front squats on squat, pullups, curls, rows, calves, etc).
yep that works too
quote:
For these what sort of load are we looking at for the main lifts. Should for deadlifts/squats/etc I be looking at doing a 30 minute session of these with a light weight, a 10 min GSLP typical HIIT session type weight or really heavy where I am really only going to be getting 3-4 rounds?
never more than 8-10 min on those
quote:
For aceesrories something like curls and calves or even rows or pushups same question as above, what time frame and Would it be better to start with say 10 on the emom, then go up 1 rep each time. or better to start with say 5 then go up 3 each time or something like that?
na you can push the volume with these
quote:
max reps: Just pick a weight and bust arse with that weight for as many reps as you can before you need to rerack the weight? so like a widowmaker of squats or loading up 315 on deads and shooting for 30 reps. or doing as many pullups or curls as you can before having to let go of the bar? If so should these be done for multiple sets? How much rest in between? what sort of reps are we aiming for?
correct, think 20 rep breathing squats
quote:
Max reps per minute: I am not certain of these. Could you please explain or direct me to where I could learn about this protocol.
set timer for 1 min, get as many reps as you can in. can be unbroken or rest as needed. try to improve over time.
Posted on 3/20/25 at 11:45 am to lsu777
quote:
na you can push the volume with these
So something like start on the first minute with 12 curls, then 14 curls the next, then 16 curls the next?
quote:
correct, think 20 rep breathing squats
What max reps would you cap them before upping the weights? 50 like the squat challenge or more like 20-30 keeping it closer to widowmakers? and just 1 set? Or multiple sets with heavy rest in between?
quote:
set timer for 1 min, get as many reps as you can in. can be unbroken or rest as needed. try to improve over time.
Just one set or multiple with lots of rest inbetween?
Posted on 3/20/25 at 11:50 am to geux2019
quote:
So something like start on the first minute with 12 curls, then 14 curls the next, then 16 curls the next?
you way over thinking, just go with what feels natural
quote:
What max reps would you cap them before upping the weights? 50 like the squat challenge or more like 20-30 keeping it closer to widowmakers? and just 1 set? Or multiple sets with heavy rest in between?
other than Oly lifts or deadlifts i wouldnt
quote:
Just one set or multiple with lots of rest inbetween?
just once
Posted on 3/20/25 at 1:04 pm to lsu777
quote:
you way over thinking, just go with what feels natural
What do you like to do or recommend in general?
Posted on 3/20/25 at 2:23 pm to lsu777
As I progress, I'm starting to lose my grip on working set deadlifts.
Do you guys recommend straps or mixed grip?
Do you guys recommend straps or mixed grip?
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