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Started By
Message
Plateauing on 531
Posted on 4/20/22 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 4/20/22 at 8:18 pm
On my 10th cycle of 531 and the last two cycles I feel like I’m plateauing or actually regressing some on bench. Squat and deadlift continue to progress fine.
3 days x week: bench & squat together and OHP and Deads together. I run 3 days a week alternating lifts and runs in 3 day cycles.
2 months ago I retested my maxes to see progress. Bench up 15 lbs, Squat 35lbs, Deadlifts 65 lbs (started coming off a muscle pull in my back so part of these gains are getting back to par), OHP up 10 lbs. Adjusted my working maxes accordingly and it’s been downhill since. I cannot hit my bench targets. I’ve been adding sets of 1-2 to make the rep total for top set, but this afternoon failed on my first rep on what was my previous max.
I know everyone is going to have an off workout, but this is not the first recently. Have been plateaued on OHP in terms of max but have generally been able to manage prescribed reps & weights.
Is this natural with 531 and bench which is harder to progress? Little more background, I’ve been lifting since Feb 2019 after a little over a decade hiatus after high school.
3 days x week: bench & squat together and OHP and Deads together. I run 3 days a week alternating lifts and runs in 3 day cycles.
2 months ago I retested my maxes to see progress. Bench up 15 lbs, Squat 35lbs, Deadlifts 65 lbs (started coming off a muscle pull in my back so part of these gains are getting back to par), OHP up 10 lbs. Adjusted my working maxes accordingly and it’s been downhill since. I cannot hit my bench targets. I’ve been adding sets of 1-2 to make the rep total for top set, but this afternoon failed on my first rep on what was my previous max.
I know everyone is going to have an off workout, but this is not the first recently. Have been plateaued on OHP in terms of max but have generally been able to manage prescribed reps & weights.
Is this natural with 531 and bench which is harder to progress? Little more background, I’ve been lifting since Feb 2019 after a little over a decade hiatus after high school.
2
Posted on 4/20/22 at 8:51 pm to DabosDynasty
OHP is a bitch. Get some micro plates.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:30 pm to FieldEngineer
quote:
OHP is a bitch. Get some micro plates.
When I hit 5 with 45’s I was happier than any lift I’ve ever made.
OP, I’ve never tried a 531. I haven’t done a “1” on purpose since high school.
This post was edited on 4/20/22 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:47 pm to Irregardless
quote:
OP, I’ve never tried a 531. I haven’t done a “1” on purpose since high school.
Fair enough, but I’m failing prescribed sets of 5 and 3 at the moment. The 1 failure will be next week
Posted on 4/20/22 at 9:55 pm to DabosDynasty
Switch it up. I am a firm believer in LP programs. But sometimes you need to step back and do something different. Even if for a month.
Posted on 4/20/22 at 10:26 pm to DabosDynasty
Are you doing straight 531 or running a template? 10th cycle is a lot of the same if doing just vanilla 531.
If you do not have the forever book, get the 531 forever book and check out some variations and templates.
You could add something simple like BBB (add mass) or BBS (add strength) to increase the volume you are hitting on the core exercises. Since you are regressing, Jokers are probably out. FSL and 5x5 would work as well
You could also get fancy with the Leaders and Anchor programming. Short version is leader cycles you are not hitting PRs, so no AMRAP. This allows you to retain some energy for accessory work, which is important to core exercises and looking good. Then in the anchors you back off the accessory and start going for PRs.
There are some combos you can run and you won't even be thinking about a PR for 14-18 weeks.
Do not have the book in front of me now, so I could be off. There is a bunch of stuff you can do though to change it up. It should last you, well Forever
If you do not have the forever book, get the 531 forever book and check out some variations and templates.
You could add something simple like BBB (add mass) or BBS (add strength) to increase the volume you are hitting on the core exercises. Since you are regressing, Jokers are probably out. FSL and 5x5 would work as well
You could also get fancy with the Leaders and Anchor programming. Short version is leader cycles you are not hitting PRs, so no AMRAP. This allows you to retain some energy for accessory work, which is important to core exercises and looking good
. Then in the anchors you back off the accessory and start going for PRs. There are some combos you can run and you won't even be thinking about a PR for 14-18 weeks.
Do not have the book in front of me now, so I could be off. There is a bunch of stuff you can do though to change it up. It should last you, well Forever
Posted on 4/21/22 at 7:34 am to DarthRebel
Was doing FSL for 5x5 until recently. My struggles in hitting prescribed reps have increased my time and I’m decently limited 2 of my 3 days because they’re after work, kids, etc. Past few cycles I’ve been doing 2 sets of 10 at 65% after the 3 prescribed sets to consolidate time and mix it up a little.
I generally rotate 3-4 of the following in each workout for accessories/support:
Face pulls
Lat pull downs
Tricep rope extensions
Tricep pushdowns
Curls - alternate DB, DB hammer curls, barbell
Lunges
Planks
Kettlebell swings
Goblet squats
Accessories I generally do 3-4 sets of 10-12.
I always do AMRAP top set on majors, except deadlifts. I’ve gotten to the point with progression where I don’t feel it wise to do 10-11 reps on a top set so I don’t do more than 8 and I will do another 2 sets going heavier each time, usually adding about 30 lbs each for 5 reps and then 2-3, then drop the 60 added over 2 sets for 5 more reps. I’ve liked doing this the past couple of months and see no loss in strength.
I generally rotate 3-4 of the following in each workout for accessories/support:
Face pulls
Lat pull downs
Tricep rope extensions
Tricep pushdowns
Curls - alternate DB, DB hammer curls, barbell
Lunges
Planks
Kettlebell swings
Goblet squats
Accessories I generally do 3-4 sets of 10-12.
I always do AMRAP top set on majors, except deadlifts. I’ve gotten to the point with progression where I don’t feel it wise to do 10-11 reps on a top set so I don’t do more than 8 and I will do another 2 sets going heavier each time, usually adding about 30 lbs each for 5 reps and then 2-3, then drop the 60 added over 2 sets for 5 more reps. I’ve liked doing this the past couple of months and see no loss in strength.
Posted on 4/21/22 at 7:40 am to FieldEngineer
quote:
OHP is a bitch. Get some micro plates.
I hit 5 at 175 the other day. Probably could have gone 185x5.
Getting to and past the OHP sticking point is a long road on heavy lifts.
Posted on 4/21/22 at 7:51 am to FieldEngineer
quote:
OHP is a bitch. Get some micro plates.
try switching to Z press for a little while
Posted on 4/21/22 at 7:59 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
try switching to Z press for a little while
And grow those triceps.
Strong triceps helps you hit higher weights on OHP and Bench.
Maybe even some strict HSPUs to work on lockout and overall shoulder stability.
This post was edited on 4/21/22 at 8:00 am
Posted on 4/21/22 at 8:22 am to DabosDynasty
quote:
Was doing FSL for 5x5 until recently. My struggles in hitting prescribed reps have increased my time and I’m decently limited 2 of my 3 days because they’re after work, kids, etc. Past few cycles I’ve been doing 2 sets of 10 at 65% after the 3 prescribed sets to consolidate time and mix it up a little.
ok couple things here....
#1- take a deload week and get some sleep, 10 hours a night during the deload week.
#2- do the 3 cycles back approach. Remember its 5 cycles forward, 3 back.
#3- lower your training max % to 80%
#4- this time follow the leader anchor templates as laid out in forever
#5- follow the assisstant protocols as laid out in forever
essentially follow the forever book lol
other thing is, you need to figure out which supplemental program drives each lift. Example for many, BBS is the best for Press but sucks for bench.
other thing is watch the amraps and if all else fails, you can switch the main lift for a variant. dont be stuck to certain lifts if you are not a competitive powerlifter.
Posted on 4/21/22 at 8:42 am to DabosDynasty
quote:
I don’t feel it wise to do 10-11 reps on a top set so I don’t do more than 8
On 5s or 3s week, I could see being close to that. Pretty sure Jim said 1s week you should by around 5 reps (mine is set for 3 reps on week 3 to increase TM). If more than that reset TM, if you cannot hit that stay same TM or lower.
If you want to do 531, here is what I would do (before lsu777 comes in and tells me I am wrong).
1. Test all your 1RM again and then take a deload week.
2. Get the app if you do not have it.
3. Plug in you 1RM and go with an 85% TM. Books are between 80%-90%
4. Run 3 cycles of 531 BBB, where BBB is offset from main. Mine is
DL+Squat BBB
Bench+OHP BBB
Squat+DL BBB
OHP_Bench BBB
5. Add some accessory, but chill out on them. 3x10s of normal exercises. Dips, curls, triceps, lats, calfs, etc.
5. Deload week
6. Run 2 cycles of AMRAPs with trying to hit PRs
7. If all good, increase your TM by at least 5lbs (maybe 10lbs on lower). Rinse and repeat.
That is just one general path from books. There are many more.
531 is a long slow grind and you should not really plateau. That is the main design of it. Probably just need to reset and you will be fine and keep moving up.
Everyone is different ans there are new templates, but 531 was really about adding 5lbs every 4 weeks to your 1RM.
The app I use on droid
Edit - or do what the guy above says
This post was edited on 4/21/22 at 8:44 am
Posted on 4/21/22 at 9:19 am to lsu777
quote:
#1- take a deload week and get some sleep, 10 hours a night during the deload week.
#2- do the 3 cycles back approach. Remember its 5 cycles forward, 3 back.
#3- lower your training max % to 80%
#4- this time follow the leader anchor templates as laid out in forever #5- follow the assisstant protocols as laid out in forever
I do the typical 3 week cycle, 1 week deload unless you’re saying take one now in response to regression. My typical deload is I’ll do 2 lifts of only dumbbell, cable, and body weight work, then the final lift of that week I do my 3 majors but 50% of max for 3-4x10.
Sleep is an issue me and always has been. I simply don’t sleep well. I’ve tried melatonin, nothing. Tried magnesium and L-Theanine - this actual made it worse. I literally couldn’t go to sleep vs getting to sleep, but sleeping poorly. I average maybe 6 hours a night of interrupted sleep. Can’t nap.
I must have skipped the 5 cycles forward, 3 back or simply forgot. Will go back and read up.
Thanks for feedback.
Posted on 4/21/22 at 9:20 am to DarthRebel
quote:
If you want to do 531, here is what I would do (before lsu777 comes in and tells me I am wrong).
quote:
Edit - or do what the guy above says
you all good. your advice is sound as hell too.
dunno how many of yall have checked out the ultimate 531 app but i highly recommend it on android. i do hate how its a subscription though.
i do highly highly highly suggest everyone buy the 4 book package from him
531 2nd edition
531 powerlifting
beyond 531
531 forever
its 122 for the bundle plus you get a year script to the forum where everyone has to use their real names, everythign is geared toward helping and get no bullshite.
it will be the best 122 you spend your whole life and you will never really need any other books on lifting again.
Posted on 4/21/22 at 9:28 am to DarthRebel
quote:
531 is a long slow grind and you should not really plateau. That is the main design of it. Probably just need to reset and you will be fine and keep moving up.
That’s what I thought too, but also figured at some point you can only add so much to a lift like bench of OHP.
I guess for perspective my bench max was 255 and OHP was 135 @ 167 body weight. Not trying to kill anyone, but general goal of progressing strength & cardio performance with my running. I’m very much competitive against myself though, to not progress bothers me but that’s a personality thing not I’ve got to be the strongest guy in the gym. Never will be, just want to be the best me.
Appreciate the responses. I’ve got some homework to help improve.
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