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Message
Epiphany I had earlier: Unified theory of dieting. What are your thoughts?
Posted on 1/23/21 at 9:51 pm
Posted on 1/23/21 at 9:51 pm
I'll try to make this succinct and not a massive TLDR wall of text, but I'm going to ramble for a bit...
Earlier today I was eating my Sonic double cheeseburger with tots, then sometime later eating a freezer cheeseburger and mini corndogs and a king size Reese's Outrageous bar and I got to thinking...
By most dietary standards I eat like complete shite, and yet I'm relatively fit (nearing 40, healthy blood pressure/triglycerides/blood sugar/etc. 32 inch waist, 6'2" 190lbs ~10-12% body fat)
It wasn't always like this though. Ten years ago I was ~225lbs, 38+ inch waist, nearing 30% body fat, high blood pressure, pre-diabetic, basically every health metric was bad.
I tried different dietary control measures to no avail, even though several of those measures are highly touted and demonstrably effective. I know for 100% fact that low carbs/Atkins/keto diets work very well for many people, but it didn't work for me. I know CICO works very well for many people, but it didn't work for me. I know fasting regimens work very well for many people..and it worked for me too. But I also know people who don't get the results I've gotten from IF. Why?
I didn't just start fasting and nothing else. I also started a consistent routine of intense exercise. So IF + exercise changed my health and body over time. In the past, CICO alone didn't move the needle much for me because I didn't get intense exercise with it. Low carbs didn't move the needle much for me because I didn't get intense exercise with it.
I get that this all may seem obvious and like I'm just rambling about self-congratulatory bullshite, so I apologize and will try to get to the point now.
While eating my junk food earlier and pondering about my food choices, I thought about how you supposedly can't out-exercise a shitty diet. But what does that mean exactly and how do I seem to out-excercise mine, and can I draw any conclusions and condense them into a useful diagnostic tool for assessing why people aren't reaching their health and weight loss goals?
Maybe it's total bullshite or obvious to everybody else so forgive me for wasting your time. But here it is, this is the epiphany I had, categorized and condensed into a system for assessing a person's weight issues:
Three elements of a shitty diet
The three-legged table of dietary shittiness that cannot be outworked in the gym.
1. Eating whatever you want
2. however much you want
3. whenever you want
From a health and weight management standpoint, I dare say it may be impossible for an adult to fully outwork the trifecta.
But I do think we can outwork 2 of the 3. Anecdotally, we all probably see this pretty often in the gym and in our social circles which brings me to my next thought:
Dietary control methods
If you include and adhere to an intense workout regimen in your lifestyle, I believe you will improve your health and body over time by strictly controlling at least 1 of the dietary sins.
1. Strictly control how much you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to when and what. Something like a strict CICO regimen that doesn't concern itself too much or at all with type or quality of calories.
2. Strictly control when you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to how much and what. Fasting regimens
3. Strictly control what you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to how much and when. Tracking food choices only and/or macro balancing without worrying about calories or meal timing, low carbs / keto / Atkins / etc.
Of course there's likely to be overlap and none of those three methods will occur in a vacuum. But as a metric for assessing a person's primary dietary control measure for weight management, it seems to sync up quite well with what I've seen in my social circles when people have success.
Which brings me to my next point - what seems to happen when people in my social circles don't succeed with one the of dietary control methods.
Without intense exercise, you can't move the needle much by only controlling for one dietary sin
I realized this seems to sync up quite well with my own experiences and the experiences of tons of people in my social circles. This is why "diets" fail. Only IF, only low carbs, only a minor to moderate calorie deficit, only making healthy food choices, only balancing macros, etc.
Only controlling for one dietary sin will not drastically alter your body without consistent and intense exercise. It may give you minor to moderate health and weight improvements or at least slow or stop weight gain.
To drastically alter your health and weight without intense exercise, I believe you must control at least 2 of the 3.
1. Strictly controlling what and how much - prototypical healthy diet that control calories and quality of food
2. Strictly controlling when and how much - Prolonged fasting plans where the fasting window is now forced to also encompass strict calorie intake.
3. Strictly controlling what and when - Probably less common, but strict healthy food choices combined with strict macro and meal timing without counting calories. I've known people to do this and lose tons of weight without any exercise whatsoever. Of course some overlap with total calories is surely also taking place.
Nevertheless from a lifestyle perspective, the peoples' control methods ignore total calories and are only concerned with eating healthy foods along a balanced meal timing schedule i.e. they eat as much lean poultry and fish and vegetables as they want, healthy carbs, low or no sugars, they eat dinner early and won't eat after a certain time akin to IF regimens etc. Mainly I've seen this sort of lifestyle among anti-cancer diet practitioners who are 50+ and don't get intense exercise.
And finally to reach your highest physical and athletic potential, you must strictly control all three elements (what, how much, and timing) and also exercise intensely.
Sorry for being so long-winded. What do y'all think? Is this all just blatantly obvious, or a load of bullshite that doesn't really help anybody?
Earlier today I was eating my Sonic double cheeseburger with tots, then sometime later eating a freezer cheeseburger and mini corndogs and a king size Reese's Outrageous bar and I got to thinking...
By most dietary standards I eat like complete shite, and yet I'm relatively fit (nearing 40, healthy blood pressure/triglycerides/blood sugar/etc. 32 inch waist, 6'2" 190lbs ~10-12% body fat)
It wasn't always like this though. Ten years ago I was ~225lbs, 38+ inch waist, nearing 30% body fat, high blood pressure, pre-diabetic, basically every health metric was bad.
I tried different dietary control measures to no avail, even though several of those measures are highly touted and demonstrably effective. I know for 100% fact that low carbs/Atkins/keto diets work very well for many people, but it didn't work for me. I know CICO works very well for many people, but it didn't work for me. I know fasting regimens work very well for many people..and it worked for me too. But I also know people who don't get the results I've gotten from IF. Why?
I didn't just start fasting and nothing else. I also started a consistent routine of intense exercise. So IF + exercise changed my health and body over time. In the past, CICO alone didn't move the needle much for me because I didn't get intense exercise with it. Low carbs didn't move the needle much for me because I didn't get intense exercise with it.
I get that this all may seem obvious and like I'm just rambling about self-congratulatory bullshite, so I apologize and will try to get to the point now.
While eating my junk food earlier and pondering about my food choices, I thought about how you supposedly can't out-exercise a shitty diet. But what does that mean exactly and how do I seem to out-excercise mine, and can I draw any conclusions and condense them into a useful diagnostic tool for assessing why people aren't reaching their health and weight loss goals?
Maybe it's total bullshite or obvious to everybody else so forgive me for wasting your time. But here it is, this is the epiphany I had, categorized and condensed into a system for assessing a person's weight issues:
Three elements of a shitty diet
The three-legged table of dietary shittiness that cannot be outworked in the gym.
1. Eating whatever you want
2. however much you want
3. whenever you want
From a health and weight management standpoint, I dare say it may be impossible for an adult to fully outwork the trifecta.
But I do think we can outwork 2 of the 3. Anecdotally, we all probably see this pretty often in the gym and in our social circles which brings me to my next thought:
Dietary control methods
If you include and adhere to an intense workout regimen in your lifestyle, I believe you will improve your health and body over time by strictly controlling at least 1 of the dietary sins.
1. Strictly control how much you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to when and what. Something like a strict CICO regimen that doesn't concern itself too much or at all with type or quality of calories.
2. Strictly control when you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to how much and what. Fasting regimens
3. Strictly control what you eat, but be a sinner when it comes to how much and when. Tracking food choices only and/or macro balancing without worrying about calories or meal timing, low carbs / keto / Atkins / etc.
Of course there's likely to be overlap and none of those three methods will occur in a vacuum. But as a metric for assessing a person's primary dietary control measure for weight management, it seems to sync up quite well with what I've seen in my social circles when people have success.
Which brings me to my next point - what seems to happen when people in my social circles don't succeed with one the of dietary control methods.
Without intense exercise, you can't move the needle much by only controlling for one dietary sin
I realized this seems to sync up quite well with my own experiences and the experiences of tons of people in my social circles. This is why "diets" fail. Only IF, only low carbs, only a minor to moderate calorie deficit, only making healthy food choices, only balancing macros, etc.
Only controlling for one dietary sin will not drastically alter your body without consistent and intense exercise. It may give you minor to moderate health and weight improvements or at least slow or stop weight gain.
To drastically alter your health and weight without intense exercise, I believe you must control at least 2 of the 3.
1. Strictly controlling what and how much - prototypical healthy diet that control calories and quality of food
2. Strictly controlling when and how much - Prolonged fasting plans where the fasting window is now forced to also encompass strict calorie intake.
3. Strictly controlling what and when - Probably less common, but strict healthy food choices combined with strict macro and meal timing without counting calories. I've known people to do this and lose tons of weight without any exercise whatsoever. Of course some overlap with total calories is surely also taking place.
Nevertheless from a lifestyle perspective, the peoples' control methods ignore total calories and are only concerned with eating healthy foods along a balanced meal timing schedule i.e. they eat as much lean poultry and fish and vegetables as they want, healthy carbs, low or no sugars, they eat dinner early and won't eat after a certain time akin to IF regimens etc. Mainly I've seen this sort of lifestyle among anti-cancer diet practitioners who are 50+ and don't get intense exercise.
And finally to reach your highest physical and athletic potential, you must strictly control all three elements (what, how much, and timing) and also exercise intensely.
Sorry for being so long-winded. What do y'all think? Is this all just blatantly obvious, or a load of bullshite that doesn't really help anybody?
This post was edited on 1/24/21 at 7:10 am
6
Posted on 1/23/21 at 11:13 pm to Huey Lewis
Does this come in a Cliffs Notes version? I’d like to purchase if so.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 11:53 pm to pwejr88
quote:
Does this come in a Cliffs Notes version? I’d like to purchase if so.
Three types of diets:
What you eat - healthy food choice, substitutes, low carbs, any diet that primarily focus on what you eat instead of when or how much
How much you eat - diets that primarily focus on total calories
When you eat - Fasting regimens that primarily focus on meal timing
For substantial improvements to bodyfat and health markers, one diet element isn't enough unless it's paired with regular intense exercise. Two or all three dietary elements are necessary to see substantial improvements without regular intense exercise.
Diets that are proven to work still consistently fail people because they apply one dietary element without intense exercise. They must apply two or all three, or apply at least one with intense exercise. Intense exercise will not overcome a diet that doesn't address any of the three issues (what, when, how much).
Posted on 1/24/21 at 5:48 am to Huey Lewis
quote:
I didn't just start fasting and nothing else. I also started a consistent routine of intense exercise
quote:
I know CICO works very well for many people, but it didn't work for me.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 6:56 am to whiskey over ice
I'm talking about from a behavioral and adherence point of view rather than a scientific and formulaic assessment. Like I said, of course I know there's overlap between the three dietary styles and the main overlap is that by strictly controlling what or when to enough of a degree to lose weight you will have created an effective calorie deficit.
But from the perspective of assessing behavior and adherence, I haven't bothered with daily or weekly calorie goals, TDEE calculations, or cared about total calories in anything I eat. Of course it's at play in my results but in terms of my personal behavior it's not something I've paid any attention to.
Years ago when I tried CICO as a dieting method, it was the only thing I paid attention to and I failed. The obvious answer as to why I failed is that my deficit wasn't large enough for a long enough time frame, but that's not helpful feedback for people who are cutting calories and still not losing weight, especially when TDEE calculations say they should be succeeding. "Cut down another 10% per day...okay try another 10%...maybe a little more..." doesn't lend itself toward adherence over time. I'm sure we've all seen this among our peers.
But from the perspective of assessing behavior and adherence, I haven't bothered with daily or weekly calorie goals, TDEE calculations, or cared about total calories in anything I eat. Of course it's at play in my results but in terms of my personal behavior it's not something I've paid any attention to.
Years ago when I tried CICO as a dieting method, it was the only thing I paid attention to and I failed. The obvious answer as to why I failed is that my deficit wasn't large enough for a long enough time frame, but that's not helpful feedback for people who are cutting calories and still not losing weight, especially when TDEE calculations say they should be succeeding. "Cut down another 10% per day...okay try another 10%...maybe a little more..." doesn't lend itself toward adherence over time. I'm sure we've all seen this among our peers.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:25 am to Huey Lewis
What you eat - doesn't matter if you are trying to lose weight. A number of studies on this including the 'twinkie diet' experiment. If you are trying to eat "healthy" and not to lose weight, you should really only be doing this after you've lost weight. Shedding weight is the healthiest thing you can do. Obesity linked to just about all the things that kill you
How much you eat - this is all that matters for losing weight.
When you eat - does not matter. Fasting is designed to get you to control your calories (just like most weight loss strategies). A lot of sedentary people can't eat 2500-3000 calories a day, that would normally contribute to their weight gain, in a 6-8 hour window. If fasting works as a strategy that someone can stick to in order to keep from overeating that's great.
How much you eat - this is all that matters for losing weight.
When you eat - does not matter. Fasting is designed to get you to control your calories (just like most weight loss strategies). A lot of sedentary people can't eat 2500-3000 calories a day, that would normally contribute to their weight gain, in a 6-8 hour window. If fasting works as a strategy that someone can stick to in order to keep from overeating that's great.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 11:37 am to Huey Lewis
I think this can be a good guideline for those that have weight to lose but maybe not for the very obese or those who were previously very obese.
For example, as someone who has lost 100lb but has ~50-60 more to lose, I restrict what I eat and how much I eat, CrossFit 4x a week, and go for walks every day, but I still struggle to lose and actually struggle not to gain weight because my appetite is huge and my desire to eat all of the time is even bigger. I eat pretty healthfully the vast majority of the time, I just eat a lot of it despite feeling I don't, and I struggle with mindless snacking because I always have a drive to eat.
Eta
All that's to say that some people will be so out of whack and their perceptions distorted that this may not really work. It takes intensive dieting, and honestly probably therapy. That's my next step.
For example, as someone who has lost 100lb but has ~50-60 more to lose, I restrict what I eat and how much I eat, CrossFit 4x a week, and go for walks every day, but I still struggle to lose and actually struggle not to gain weight because my appetite is huge and my desire to eat all of the time is even bigger. I eat pretty healthfully the vast majority of the time, I just eat a lot of it despite feeling I don't, and I struggle with mindless snacking because I always have a drive to eat.
Eta
All that's to say that some people will be so out of whack and their perceptions distorted that this may not really work. It takes intensive dieting, and honestly probably therapy. That's my next step.
This post was edited on 1/24/21 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 1/25/21 at 9:54 am to Huey Lewis
quote:I lost the majority of my weight (115 lbs) utilizing only one of those elements ("what you eat"). I paid no attention to amount or timing and didn't really start exercising until most of the weight was gone. Markers returned to normal range and was able to discontinue metformin and lisinopril. Further, I achieved this in under a year. Most here would consider the diet overly restrictive though.
Three types of diets:
What you eat - healthy food choice, substitutes, low carbs, any diet that primarily focus on what you eat instead of when or how much
How much you eat - diets that primarily focus on total calories
When you eat - Fasting regimens that primarily focus on meal timing
For substantial improvements to bodyfat and health markers, one diet element isn't enough unless it's paired with regular intense exercise. Two or all three dietary elements are necessary to see substantial improvements without regular intense exercise.
Posted on 1/31/21 at 7:22 am to Hulkklogan
I like the concept of learning to eat smaller portions or amounts.
This often oes against the predominant way of thinking in America. After all, didn't buffets originate here?
This often oes against the predominant way of thinking in America. After all, didn't buffets originate here?
Posted on 1/31/21 at 9:16 am to Huey Lewis
I wouldn’t take the “out-exercise” phrase so literally. I think its purpose is to discourage people who were previously sedentary from using 20 minutes of low intensity cardio to justify a 600 calorie piece of pie. The overwhelming majority of people—especially those who are trying to lose weight—will be unable to out-exercise their diet. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t people out there who are in great shape and also eat like shite. There are plenty of professional athletes who are probably violating all three tenets that you’ve proposed.
As far as diet and exercise go, I think that there needs to be greater focus on making smaller, sustainable changes, but 1. That doesn’t yield dramatic results and 2. The baseline in the US, and other developed countries wrestling with obesity, is so pathetic that it’s hard to get people to do the right thing without overly restrictive diet and exercise regimens
As far as diet and exercise go, I think that there needs to be greater focus on making smaller, sustainable changes, but 1. That doesn’t yield dramatic results and 2. The baseline in the US, and other developed countries wrestling with obesity, is so pathetic that it’s hard to get people to do the right thing without overly restrictive diet and exercise regimens
Posted on 2/1/21 at 10:51 am to Hulkklogan
Something that may help is focusing on foods that satisfy your hunger. You say that your appetite is huge. If you can find foods that fill you up better but have same amount of calories (think 500 calories of steak vs 500 calories of cookies), this can make your meals more effective and help eliminate extra snacks.
Having a lot of drives is killer, though.
Having a lot of drives is killer, though.
Posted on 2/1/21 at 11:42 am to irishTiger18
I already bulk up my dishes and eat voluminous foods all the time. Lean meats, fibrous and voluminous carbs, and a lot of vegetables. Sometimes I eat too much fiber and cause issues for myself.
This post was edited on 2/1/21 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 2/1/21 at 6:43 pm to Huey Lewis
I read the 1st post but not the others. I’ve always felt like I consistently did intense exercise but also pretty much eat whatever I want. One of my passions in life is eating bad foods, sometimes in large quantities.
I’m over 40 now and have been within a 10 lb weight range since HS. I do eat a little healthier now than in my 20s, including 24 hour IF about once/month. Always been size 32s. I have considered that I’d likely be 25 lbs heavier if I just did casual exercise like many of my friends.
I’m over 40 now and have been within a 10 lb weight range since HS. I do eat a little healthier now than in my 20s, including 24 hour IF about once/month. Always been size 32s. I have considered that I’d likely be 25 lbs heavier if I just did casual exercise like many of my friends.
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