re: LIV Ratings

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All the elevated events are going to soon be in a league by themselves. LIV-like in that respect. They are going to identify the top 70 players and everyone else will be playing minor league pro golf. It's going to get hard for the other 55 golfers who are not invited to work their way up the food chain.

Hey, the rich just got richer. Ain't free agency great?

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I'm not a fan of this. I love the cuts and seeing more golfers get a chance to shine on the big stage.

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Think about all the golfers who are going to be left out in the cold. What is the PGA going to do when marquee players get hurt and lose ranking points?

You'll have guys like Woods and I guess any other of the brand names who will always get into any elevated PGA event through PIP.

Now, I'm actually surprised with all this no-cut stuff with so many worthy mouths to feed on the tour. A lot of good golfers have to be in shock to hear this. Who wants to argue at this stage how much brand names sell in any sport?

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I think it is an over reaction to LIV at the moment but I guess if they did nothing then it would be hard to keep Rory, Spieth, JT, Rahm, Scheffler from jumping to LIV.

Before LIV came around did anyone hear any players complaining about their schedule or how much they were compensated?

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The only position I have is people melting down about LIV or constantly talking about what a failure it is are silly. It’s just more golf. I cannot imagine being passionate either way regarding LIV. Some people are, though. And it is entertaining for me to engage with those people.

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It’s not just “more golf”. They very much sought to being a disruption to the status quo. That’s why I ask about their long term strategy and plan to make money.

It’s clearly a competitor, and from the posts in this thread I gather the tournaments are on at the exact same time. Do you see how they can coincide indefinitely? I sure don’t.

And I only say this to give context as to why someone might be passionate about it. I’m not, because I unfortunately got out of the habit of watching and playing golf since Ida. But I could see how I could be if I basically just saw a group using money to tear something apart with no discernible plan to make it better.

It’s just really interesting to me. I never really saw how they could compete long term with the PGA just because of competition level. Every single year the PGA has some youngster that rises from relative obscurity and becomes a top 10 golfer. Golf is all about streaks, people play their best golf at different times. A larger population gives more opportunity for someone to be playing out of their mind golf.

The PGA has an infrastructure that would be almost impossible for them to lose the pipeline. That pipeline, with large fields gives more opportunity for the cream to rise to the top. It’s fun as hell to watch some guy come out of nowhere, win a tournament and get to see them have the reality of what that means to their career sit in on live tv. I still remember randomly getting caught up watching Shane Lowry win the Bridgestone in a hotel room in Chicago and how cool that was. It was good tv, my wife happily watched it with me when we were on a vacation.

Lastly, watching talented golfers is fun, but the guys the LIV recruited have just historically owned the longest hot streaks. As others have questioned, does this format lend itself to very competitive golf? To bring out the best in these guys? Guaranteed money, lack of fan support at events, and the distraction of the best being able to still play in majors that do have fan support all suggest it does not.

Not trying to start an argument, just giving some perspective from a guy that has watched a lot of golf but just not tuned in lately.

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I truly think your more golf argument is one of the dumbest I have ever heard

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I’m very well aware. You are wrong.

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It’s not just “more golf”. They very much sought to being a disruption to the status quo. That’s why I ask about their long term strategy and plan to make money.

It’s clearly a competitor, and from the posts in this thread I gather the tournaments are on at the exact same time. Do you see how they can coincide indefinitely? I sure don’t.

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Sure it is. LIV is hot to prove that they can develop an international brand and bring a younger audience to the game. The PGA is all Americano and uses International players as a feeder program for American golf. You see the game from your home venue each week. Other countries also have an appetite for golf and see it differently.

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The PGA has an infrastructure that would be almost impossible for them to lose the pipeline. That pipeline, with large fields, gives more opportunity for the cream to rise to the top. It’s fun as hell to watch some guy come out of nowhere, win a tournament, and get to see them have the reality of what that means to their career sit in on live tv.

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You are now seeing extensive PGA changes to their format and product. Nothing is the same as it was. The 70 top players and no cuts in these special elevated events have changed professional golf.

Who's coming from "nowhere" now? The PGA has always had tourneys that mattered more than others and people knew when they were watching the Purto Rico Open or Honda Classic. Or not watching. Now we are going to have a lot more Honda Classic-type events guaranteed. All of this is going to play into the future of the "feeding program," around the globe, that the PGA took for granted for so many years.

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Sure it is. LIV is hot to prove that they can develop an international brand and bring a younger audience to the game

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Ok great, can somebody please tell me how they plan on doing this? Have they developed an international brand? Does anyone watch it outside of the US? How is gathering all of the established players, that could already be seen in the more visible PGA previously, a recipe for getting a younger audience?

My assumption is that they plan to have significant market share, and that they have not come close to accomplishing their goals. They have not come close to making a profit and will continue to lose money unless something changes. They have no plan to develop new stars or talent, what you see is what you get. Am I wrong about that? These “feeder program” disruptions you speak of, do any of those players have an opportunity to play in the LIV events?

I understand that at the moment, it is literally “more golf”, but anyone with half a brain can see the current state cannot be the end game. So again, forget where you think it might go, all I am asking is how does LIV plan to get eyeballs and make money? Attendance? Streaming? Like I said, this thread has most of the info I am going off of, was it just a bad outing they expect will be better?

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Who's coming from "nowhere" now? The PGA has always had tourneys that mattered more than others and people knew when they were watching the Purto Rico Open or Honda Classic. Or not watching. Now we are going to have a lot more Honda Classic-type events guaranteed. All of this is going to play into the future of the "feeding program," around the globe, that the PGA took for granted for so many years.

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I’d like to respond to this but after a few reads I’m not sure what it means. Are you saying the Honda classic didn’t have star power? Is this thread not about how the Honda kicked LIVs arse in ratings? Just looked at the leaderboard, would a 34 year old rookie going into a playoff against a guy that hasn’t won in a decade not qualify as “coming out of nowhere”? Is this not a shining example of exactly what I just said (that this makes for good tv)?

Again, I don’t know shite about this, would be happy to know and be set straight. But given what I know about the LIV format, the ratings they are getting relative to PGA, the players they poached and how much they paid for them - this appears to be a colossal failure in the making.

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If 48 players play in a LIV event, the field sizes in PGA and KF don’t get smaller. Young, talented players fill in those 48 spots. Which means more golf. That is just a fact.

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I got ya. And I’m with you. I like watching all the golf I can get. A very unhealthy amt.

Amateur tourneys, LPGA, KFT, etc.

I just don’t love LIV for the reason that it minimizes the best players all playing at the same time. Don’t get me wrong, I do think it helped the PGA Tour some because it was a little stagnant and asleep at the wheel. I just wish changes could have been made with no LIV.

I agree with you.

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They'll be no different than the WGC events that already exist. Top 50 players, 4 rounds, no cut, big payout

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Yep. Therefore, LIV should be receiving OWGR points, right?