re: Whatever........this is a "sicboy crapping on the Switch" thread, cuz reasons

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Were you not going ape shite about old Metroid games?

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yup

it took me 7 months to play the prime series, and i did skyrim while wife worked and i had off over holidays...i haven't touched that since. Metroid 2 pissed my wife off too

and also proving i'm not just a Nintendo fanboy...i discovered Metroid at 32

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I highly doubt this adult market you are talking about is jumping at the bit to play the more childish themed games of Nintendo.

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it's not apples to apples, but its not apples to oranges either...but the nes classic was the sleeper hit. no one talked about it that much, no tv ads, and they flew off shelves. surprise surprise, the people i know with dust collecting ps3s, 4s and xbox whatevers...have nes classics or expressed interest in the form of "i can't find one"/"where can i find one"

i have one friend whose gaming habits haven't changed with marriage and a kid...no interest.

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Nostalgia plays a huge part in that

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that's true and so does the fact that those games aren't big time commitments.

you can only speculate how many are out there and then it still falls on Nintendo to sell them, but i think the versatility adds to the potential mass appeal.

parents have tablets for kids with Netflix and stupid little games (which is why i think Nintendo should've had video streaming at launch, but i'm sure it's not far behind) hey...it's also a Nintendo

adults with tablets...email, web browsing, streaming...i doubt Nintendo will have an email app but they're short sighted if they don't...same for the web browsing app. They're too proud "this is a dedicated gaming device", but that's the full cross market potential. but if they do and you're going to buy a tablet...hey this one is cheaper and btw it's a fricking Nintendo

Nintendo really should've used the line "anywhere, anytime, anyway" line more because that nails the concept. that's why i think it will sell. and their ads have millennials and millennials with kids. different types of stupid millennials but it's it's not an accident

last thing i'll say is while the hardcore gaming sites were mixed on the switch reviews...the publications not dedicated to hardcore gaming and tech sites loved it, and there were several anecdotes and they involved

commutes
kids

i need to find out breesus' post from last month it was something that stuck out from a marketing strategy perspective.

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We all have had multiple conversations over the years. Fanboys do not lesson to facts.

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I just couldn't tell who that was directed at.

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I fought the good fight during announcement enough. I'm enjoying my Switch but I know the system will fail. Nintendo still did not learn.

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I think it's way early to say it will fail. And I'm not sure if you're talking power or not about Nintendo not learning. I've asked before though and I haven't seen a response:

Let's say Nintendo comes out with a generic, standard console. All equal in power, chasing the same things that MS and Sony are chasing, getting all the third parties they can (which is a dumb game now backed purely by funds).

In your opinion, do they immediately win back enough market share to "succeed?" They couldn't get 1/3 (30-40 million units), they'd have to do something north of 70-80 for it to actually be a success? Are they really going to pull that many people directly out of Sony and MS's pockets?

Is that a 100% certainty?

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In your opinion, do they immediately win back enough market share to "succeed?" They couldn't get 1/3 (30-40 million units), they'd have to do something north of 70-80 for it to actually be a success? Are they really going to pull that many people directly out of Sony and MS's pockets?

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People want this from Nintendo so badly. There were good reasons "not" to buy an N64 and Gamecube because they tried as hard as they did to differ from the competition.

If the Switch is an evolution of the 3DS and Wii U combined, I think it will be successful. I don't know if I see the benefit of the 3DS continuing alongside the Switch unless 3DS titles are also ported to the Switch.

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People want this from Nintendo so badly. There were good reasons "not" to buy an N64 and Gamecube because they tried as hard as they did to differ from the competition.

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People who want it are loud, yes, but loud doesn't always equate to sales. I think that's driven by a real affection for nintendo stuff.

I totally get the argument, but Nintendo games just don't fit the modern core gamer which is that very settled 120-140 million-ish groups that buy your PS4s and X1's. I would HOPE Nintendo has done Market Research on this very topic and that it's a big reason they haven't gone that direction. If they've done marketing and that has shown an easy 60-70% market penetration into the core gamer, then yeah, they should probably re-evaluate.

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If the Switch is an evolution of the 3DS and Wii U combined, I think it will be successful. I don't know if I see the benefit of the 3DS continuing alongside the Switch unless 3DS titles are also ported to the Switch.

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Well this is a big problem for Nintendo. They are reluctant right now to outright say it, so as to not hurt 3DS's very respectable success. But not doing that is the very thing that could keep people from buying in 100%.

Chicken or the Egg. If you know that Nintendo is throwing all it's weight behind a single console, I think the 3rd Party issue is less of a problem (still a problem, but for people interested in nintendo games, not sure their wallet can handle all nintendo ips+3rd parties. Which is a whole other problem Nintendo has always fought). If you're getting Fire Emblems, Pokemon's, Mario and all Mario spinoffs, Smash Bros., New IPs like Splatoon, etc. - that's big.

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But what standards, other than pure power specs, are problems for the Switch?

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We've been talking about them. Things that all of your competitors have, I expect a new console to have those things. If you want to completely ignore software and OS (which are absolutely apart of it), you can talk about the lack of ethernet port in dock, not coming with a way to play and charge your joycon (have to purchase a charging grip is absurd), etc.

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I'll give you cloud saves, admittedly Nintendo is behind on online infrastructure. This has been the case for a long time. it's a problem, but anyone super upset that they didn't have it at launch was unrealistic

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That's the thing. I don't think people are super upset, they're criticizing it for not having things that you expect out of a console. The cloud save thing is compounded by the fact you can't move your saves off your Switch. Once again, if all of your competitors have the feature, it is absolutely a standard feature. A standard that's been practiced for nearly 10 years now.

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Naaa, I get this. But this is not a standard, or a missing feature.

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VC is tied to Nintendo's offerings and has been available on DSi, 3DS, Wii, and Wii U. Other consoles launched with some type of VC support (even if it was terrible), so I don't see why it's a big ask for them to include things that even they've done before. Really, I just want to play Earthbound on my Switch.

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I mean, the rest are power (4k, VR) and media experiences (twitch, media apps)

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You didn't touch on games as a service or game streaming, but I don't think VR is a huge power requirement. If Samsung can use their phones for VR, I would think Nintendo can have some type of offering if they chose to. Like I said, they don't need to do all of the things that Sony and MS are doing, but they can still have their value proposition (switching from handheld to console) without missing things that everyone else has.

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I just don't see that path, I think you guys do, but I don't. The gamecube was similarly powered and got crushed. Just like you mentioned the Xbox is getting crushed now,

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Well, I also said that Xbox was doing well, just being outsold. Xbox One will likely sell better than every Nintendo console outside of NES and Wii, so I imagine Nintendo would be thrilled for X1 numbers. I wasn't trying to paint a path for Nintendo to beat all of its competition with my earlier comments, just trying to explain why people are critical or disappointed at the lack of movement and communication.

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Things that all of your competitors have, I expect a new console to have those things.

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Kind of the issue though, it isn't really a direct competitor to MS/Sony systems. Looking at it like that makes many (certainly not all), of these questions/concerns not accurate.

And no one is ignoring the software or OS, those are issues, but saying something like ethernets is standard when more and more devices actually come without them anyways is untruthful.

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not coming with a way to play and charge your joycon (have to purchase a charging grip is absurd), etc.

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My first X1 controller did not come with the battery pack and was AA battery powered

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That's the thing. I don't think people are super upset, they're criticizing it for not having things that you expect out of a console. The cloud save thing is compounded by the fact you can't move your saves off your Switch. Once again, if all of your competitors have the feature, it is absolutely a standard feature. A standard that's been practiced for nearly 10 years now.

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It's a lot of posts and a lot of emotion and negativity about something that people aren't upset about that, which means they care in some respect.

So you say Nintendo should do it's own thing, but everything is about doing exactly what competitors are doing, or tackling problems in the same way. That's a bit misaligned. Like I said, I agree on this, but at least for me cloud save was never an expectation without a paid for online service. (BTW, a Standard is HDMI, USB-C, Controller Button Organization, etc.. These are things that everyone designs to spec to. And Nintendo does well there now. Cloud Saves are simply a feature gap, not a standard it's up to the consumer to evaluate whether or not it's a necessity.)

Moving saves is a problem, I'd assume this is fixed quickly.

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VC is tied to Nintendo's offerings and has been available on DSi, 3DS, Wii, and Wii U. Other consoles launched with some type of VC support (even if it was terrible), so I don't see why it's a big ask for them to include things that even they've done before. Really, I just want to play Earthbound on my Switch.

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We've already got Neo-Geo games today, I'm not sure if those are considered VC or not. This does suck, I want Earthbound on the go, I want Mother 3. I want Chrono Trigger.

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You didn't touch on games as a service or game streaming, but I don't think VR is a huge power requirement. If Samsung can use their phones for VR, I would think Nintendo can have some type of offering if they chose to. Like I said, they don't need to do all of the things that Sony and MS are doing, but they can still have their value proposition (switching from handheld to console) without missing things that everyone else has.

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Something I've wanted to say for a bit in this discussion, a lot of this revolves around different types of companies. Cloud Save, VR, etc. - these are helped by Sony and Microsoft having access to a lot of cross-company resources. MS heavily uses Azure for X1 (I assume that's where the Cloud Save infrastructure is), Sony was in the cloud business for media, and it has media content to include. Microsoft has entire departments devoted to technology, streaming services, etc.

Nintendo is a game company. To do cloud saves, they'd have to invest in that internally, or have a massive contract with some external company. It isn't easy to contract with some other internal department for a service or for new technology.

When MS implements VR, they aren't doing it for the X1, they are doing it for every PC running Windows. That investment can reap huge benefits. Azure wasn't a game platform, it's a platform to empower a significant chunk of MS resources. Sony owns channels, media, other technology divisions that can lend expertise and drive other kinds of growth. Sony developed the Blu-Ray...made it an easy, cheap player.

The scale and scope are completely different. Well done for MS and Sony accelerating the game business into more of a complete media experience, that's a huge part of Nintendo falling behind. Think about Blu-Ray tech, the reason Nintendo never went there, was that every Nintendo game sold is money in Sony's pocket. That's it.

That doesn't explain things like Nintendo not using their biggest strength as a way to differentiate, VC catalog, simplicity (win like Apple does), or the design errors (charging grip, which really should just be included in the box), but there are probably business reasons behind SOME of this like cloud save, vr, etc. and how they make decisions that aren't just "blindness" or "not getting it," like some people think. It isn't as apples to apples as people want it to be. (And regardless of all of this, yes Nintendo makes very questionable decisions outside of this).

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Kind of the issue though, it isn't really a direct competitor to MS/Sony systems

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I think this point is where our primary disagreements are. I like video games, so I do and will continue to compare Valve, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to each other. They compete for my free time spent in gaming, so they all set the bar for what I want and expect out that gaming time. While the target audience isn't entirely the same, I'm in that part of the ven diagram that is in all 4. As I look to respond to various things about perception and expectation, I think we just view them differently. You say it's not reasonable to expect as much from a free service, but it's been available on Steam for free.

I don't think anything I've mentioned is really a big reach for Nintendo to do. While they're not a very diverisified company with 100k employees, they're not a small, weak company (over $6bn in revenue for 2016). They've shown the ability to adapt and work with others to work into markets they're not familiar with (DeNA for mobile games), so it's not unreasonable for them to work with someone else if they're not comfortable with keeping up with the developments of the industry (not referring to just high powered processors and video cards).

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My first X1 controller did not come with the battery pack and was AA battery powered

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Gross. I didn't think they still used batteries, but at least with that, it's just a matter of swapping them out.

holy shite, I just googled this game and it basically looks like wind waker...and climbing exploration like BOTW