re: PC Discussion - Gaming, Performance and Enthusiasts

Repost that on this page or make a new thread dont want it to get buried

damn a i7 is $499? That's like my entire current build budget wise

Stout also mentioned sapphire rma policy is garbage so buyer beware, imo

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Bath salts. Not even once

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I meant the real estate market crash but yea that woman ran my store for nearly 3 years with 0 issues. I bought that station at repo and she helped me build the business back, She ran it since I was busy with real estate shite.

I sold that synthetic Mary J for a bit when it first came out and the guy we bought from got her hooked on bath salts (I never sold that stuff FWIW) which fueled her gambling problem. Next thing I notice my deposits are not what they usually are and it all came to a head over that and the bounced check issue with that guy.

A few months later I found out she lost custody of her kids because she left them in her van sleeping for over 8 hours while she gambled all night at the Isle of Capri AKA Pile of Debris.

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Ok guys, after taking some of you all's advice; I've put the following build together. I'm wondering if I could get away with a 850w psu if I plan on adding another 7950.

Appreciate any tips. I'll probably start ordering parts in a couple weeks.

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($499.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus P9X79 LE ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($224.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($266.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($219.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card ($287.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 800D ATX Full Tower Case ($279.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional Gold 1200W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($274.78 @ Newegg)

Total: $2173.69
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

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Hope you haven't bought the parts yet.

First thing's first: Yes, that Power Supply is waay more than you need. You could almost get away with half that and still OC the hell out of the CPU, but I would advise bumping it down to a 800, maybe 850 if you get a good deal somewhere, but no more than that. I bet you can get a great 850w for over $100 less. And that's still more than you need, even after you add a second 7950 and overclock both of them.

Secondly, is this a gaming PC primarily? You see yourself encoding videos, compressing files, etc. many times a day, where the extra few minutes this 3930k will shave off your compression/encoding time is important?

If it's a gaming PC, nix the LGA 2011. You won't see a performance difference in gaming, or anything else except for multithreaded, high-CPU load applications. And benchmarks :) But that hardly matters in gaming benchmarks because your GPU takes priority. We will get to that in a bit.

Also, that CPU is going to be replaced with Ivy Bridge E in september, and likely alongside a chipset refresh. Don't spend that kind of money on hardware that is about to be refreshed in 3 months.

So, instead, go with a 4770k and a Z87 motherboard. The ASUS Z87 Pro, the MSI gaming Z87-GD65, or the ASRock Z87 Extreme6 are all great motherboards for less than $200.

Next, the case. You're putting one GPU and two drives into a giant $300 full-tower case? You made no mention of after-market cooling, which would require such a large space -- for instance, radiators, oversize heatsinks, pumps, etc.

So, save yourself over $150 and go with a good mid-tower.

Next, the RAM. Any reason for going with that? You will get no noticeable gaming performance increase by paying the huge premium for the high-speed low latency memory. It's over $100 more than the 16GB Dominator Platinum 1600mhz. It would be an extremely poor use of funds to go with the 2133mhz. Get 2 sticks of 8GB for $154.99.

Now, with those above suggestions, I've saved you nearly $550, and you may have lost about 5 fps in most games, which will not mean a damned thing with a 7950 at 1080p 60hz.

With that money, buy the following:
1. An inexpensive aftermarket CPU cooler such as the coolermaster hyper 212 evo. ($30)

2. A 27" 1440p korean monitor (Catleap, Crossover, QNIX, etc) on ebay ($350)

3. Upgrade video card to 7970 (extra $120), or GTX 770.... Or, spend extra money on a 780, or better yet, crossfire 7950s since you appear to be considering that anyway.

Now, the computer will blow you the frick away.

And if you insist on staying with 1080p gaming, just get the hyper 212 EVO, and enjoy the $500 I just saved you.

If you decide to take my advice, let me know and I'll spend a little more time finding links to the hardware.

I dunno, I never like to recommend anyone buy into a discontinued socket... Not that you'll ever want to get a new chip for the same socket when it comes to intel... Before Sandybridge, I was using Clarkdale because the mobo and CPU were given to me. Then the mobo died, and I had to pay a premium for a new 1156 board, when I should've just sold the clarkdale and gone with SB. Instead, I waited another 6 months, and got the SB when IB was right around the corner. I saved money, but my e-peen suffered. :(

Adding to what Puff said about RAM, I'd agree. Instead of downgrading to the Corsair Dominator 1600mhz stuff, switch to another brand with higher CAS latency. That'll shave off yet another $50-60.

Screw it, because I'm bored, I'll reconfigure this for you:

CPU: i7-4770k ($335 at eBay if you jump on it quick: LINK )

Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme6 LGA 1150 ($189.99 at Newegg LINK )

CPU Cooler: Hyper 212evo $29.99 after rebate at newegg LINK or get you a 120mm sealed liquid cooler for quite a bit more

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X series 16gb ($103 with promo at newegg: LINK )

Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($219.99 @ NCIX US) (You're fine here)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.98 @ Outlet PC) (fine, too, though you can get a seagate barracuda 2tb for a few dollars more LINK )

Video Card: 2 x Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Cards ($287.98 @ Newegg)- total $575.96

Case: I'm not going to recommend a particular case, because even us experts and enthusiasts have differing opinions. Basically, here's some mid-towers on newegg sorted by rating: LINK Just look at the first 50+ results and take your pick. Prices range from $40 to $200, but we will just count this as $100 avg.

Decide what you would enjoy looking at all day (or get something plain and tuck it away). Make your own decisions about USB 3.0, firewire, audio, PSU positioning, etc. However, pay attention to any reviews that mention CPU coolers not fitting because of the case width. The evo isn't the biggest cooler out there, but a small number of cases will have issues with it (and in the majority of cases, the problem can be solved by removing the side panel fan). Brands I personally like, in no particular order: Fractal Design, NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master, Lian Li (overpriced though), and Rosewill is a good budget case.

Power Supply: Corsair HX Series HX850w $159.99 at newegg LINK People have their brand preferences, but this one is common, has lots of positive reviews, and a decent price, and it's modular. Power Supply obviously needs to be good, but no reason to stress about brand preference.

Monitor: 1440p Korean Panel. Glossy is my preference for vivid colors. Here's a search on ebay: LINK
approx $350 or so

Total: ~$2150

So... I trimmed away all the negligible performance gains, then gave you a second video card, an upgraded cooler to allow some overclocking, and mind-fricking brand new 1440p monitor, and came in $20 under your original budget.

Nice find on the 7970 prices. I only consulted newegg for everything except the cpu and monitor. I need to use pcpartpicker more often.

But, where can you get a 1440p glossy for $280 shipped?

Also, I still disagree with using 2011, especially if you're configuring it with that chip. The multiplier is locked, and the 3770k and 4770k both outperform it and don't require you pay $200+ for a mobo with negligible advantages for gaming. My CPU/Mobo combo was faster and $25 cheaper. It was also released 3 days ago, so it's super shiny and new.

Holy crap I'm blown away by the time you guys put into helping me pick a build. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to respond in more detail a little later when I get a break at work.


Added:

Ok, so the bkrd on me and this rig: I built a couple of computers back in 2003-2005 when dual core processors were hitting the mass market like the AMD X2 and DFI lanparty mobos were all the rage. Then I went to college and just went with laptops from then until now. My newest laptop (asus g73), is hitting the 2 and half year mark and it's starting to routinely crash from heating.

So now that I'm out of college with a little more budget room, I've decided to jump back into building desktops.
Honestly the thing that got me seriously wanting to build again was looking through all of you all's builds and pictures. Water cooling is something I always wanted to learn how to setup but never got into earlier in my life and I want to now. I figured I should start with a air cooled pc to get back into the swing of where hardware is at; and then convert to a liquid cooling beast a year or so into the rig.

I will mostly use it for gaming. The first two rigs I built were used for 3d rendering when I still thought I was gonna go to school for 3d modeling but I pretty much never do anything intensive than game nowadays. I play RTS's alot and am definitely going to get on COH2 (played the shite outta the first one). Mostly, I build overkill b/c my rigs are more of a hobby than what I need for gaming. I got more enjoyment outta building my first two rigs than gaming with them I think.


Onto the components:

CASE:I picked this full tower case bc I went mid tower on my first build and then full tower on my second; and it was like a whole new world. I also want to have the space available to me if I ever do decide to buy some new cards and go liquid cooling. I think I'll probbably stay the route of overkill in this aspect.

GPU: This is where I needed help the most; I want to get a card that's on the high end of the bang for buck that allows me to either buy new cards and WC or pair it with another card to buy some more time out of it while I research the upgrade to WC and all the while giving me some power in the meantime.Other than describing the impossible, What this means is I needed some advice on where the sweetspot is in the gpu market right now.

I'm a little weary of ATI (or AMD now apparently) video cards bc of one latop that had a m5750 that gave me HELL. I used nvidia exclusively on the two previous builds and loved them. I really think the root of my bad radeon experience was cooling related so I believe with the bigger case with room to arange some adequate cooling; I'd be willing to trade in my nvidia pants for AMD radeon pants.

I am EVGA to the death on the nvidia side; but I don't really have any experience with any radeon brands?

CPU and MOBO:

I'm basically looking for something that will last here bc like I said earlier; I may do an extreme upgrade halfway through the rig's lifespan.

RAM:
I kinda just stole the doms fom LSU cayotes build. Same with the PSU; I needed a starting point and that build on the first page was one of the biggest sparks to this project.


When I get off work; I will put together another build based on what you guys suggested, and update yall.

I found a store here in Vegas with an authentic darth vader helmet for only $600

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I still disagree with using 2011, especially if you're configuring it with that chip. The multiplier is locked, and the 3770k and 4770k both outperform it

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Sorry, but that is all false. The 3820 overclocks far better than the 3770k, and runs much cooler than them too (I got mine to 4.625 @ something like 1.3v and probably could have gone higher). The 3770k and 4770k dont outperform it. For dual video card setups the 2011 board is the ideal setup since you will be able to use full 3.0 x16/x16. The mobo quality on the 2011 line is head and shoulders above the 1155/1150

Did you win that titan?

I bid it up to $300 but forgot about it the manifest said it wad still functional too

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Sorry, but that is all false. The 3820 overclocks far better than the 3770k, and runs much cooler than them too (I got mine to 4.625 @ something like 1.3v and probably could have gone higher). The 3770k and 4770k dont outperform it. For dual video card setups the 2011 board is the ideal setup since you will be able to use full 3.0 x16/x16. The mobo quality on the 2011 line is head and shoulders above the 1155/1150

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We will have to agree to disagree, but please link me to diverse benchmarks comparing stock speeds. The only one I remember is a basic passmark score, where the 3820 is behind. Passmark is only one side of the coin, though. I would be curious to see stock gaming benchmark apples-to-apples comparisons.

The only good argument for going for 3820 is that it offers an upgrade path for hex+ core CPUs (Ivy-E) in September. This will likely accompany a new chipset. You may or may not need a bios update on your existing board to accommodate the IVY-E. And then, congrats, you'll have a powerful CPU that's excellent for multithreaded applications and CPU-intensive encoding, compression, video editing, folding, etc. Your gaming benchmark score will increase as well because you'll be getting 167 fps without vsync instead of 152.

The primary benefit of the Z87 platform is that you can spend sensible money on a brand new platform and have a hyperthreading CPU that will not only be far from becoming a gaming bottleneck, but will also offer very good performance in other applications. And let's ignore overclocking. His original setup did not even include an aftermarket cooler. There is a point in cooling performance where the 3770k/4770k take the overclocking advantage, even with the higher temps-- where that performance point is, I'm not sure. I might research that later, but I suspect that a "good" liquid cooler, like the Kuhler 920 or the Corsair H80 and up, would be the ticket. Both chips would be fine at stock. (But as an aside, what RAM are you using with that 3820?)

Gaming performance wise you will not get any NOTICEABLE benefit from the quad channel RAM--a Z87/4770K setup is not bandwidth limited. Similarly, you will get no benefit from the higher PCIe bandwidth as you wouldn't be bandwidth limited even on Z68's PCI-e 2.0 slots. This is true even with a very fast GPU configuration, such as CF 7970. You have to know this to be true. Tom's and other places have tested this. Not to mention, as I've stated in other posts, socket 2011 is not required for x16/x16. But it doesn't matter. With 2 GPUs, there is no significant/notable performance difference between x16/x16 and x8/x8. The distinction matters when using 3 or 4 cards.

Still, it's not an easy decision. Personally, I will be switching to 2011 when IB-e is released. But gaming is only a quarter of what I use my PC for, and even then I think the upgrade is purely vanity. I can't fault anyone for wanting a Hex Core Intel, either today or in September. The initial issue at hand was helping him build a far better gaming system for the money he was already planning to spend. If he is willing to spend more money, the next step up from my configuration would be to go with the 7970s as you suggested, and just go with the 2011 and a 3930k now to last a few years.

With that being said, since Pendulum mentioned the plan for an extreme upgrade midway through the PC's life (say, in a year and a half, or sooner?), there's a new dynamic at play. An extreme upgrade generally involves adding or replacing GPUs, often switching to a new socket (meaning new mobo and cpu), and sometimes that can trigger the need to upgrade the PSU. If you see yourself in the next 12-18 months deciding to go all out by adding a pump, radiators, blocks, high performance fans with a fan controller, etc. on top of using that new cooling equipment to overclock 2 high-TDP GPUs, then it might be worth it to bump up the wattage of the PSU to maybe 1000, accounting for capacitor aging. I'm using an 18-month-old 1000w PSU to power a D5 vario pump at its highest setting, 5 scythe gentle typhoon fans, 5 LED fans, 1 fan controller, an overclocked sandy bridge CPU @ 1.48v, and 2 7970s with a massive overclock raising the TDP by 25% per card.

The 850 might even be enough now, but over time PSUs lose their initial wattage capacity (I've read they can degrade up to 30% or more over less than a couple of years if you're running your PC 24/7 with moderate to high usage). If you see yourself investing into watercooling and extreme overclocking (and I highly recommend it-- for fun mostly -- you certainly aren't going to get $500 of performance increases out of a $500 custom loop. But god damnit it's sweet), then the bump to 1000w would be sensible.

If your extreme upgrade involves a new CPU, you will likely be looking at Broadwell, or Skylake will be just around the corner/just released. The other choice will be whatever enthusiast choice is out there there (likely a new socket as well, depending on how long you wait). The annoying truth is by the time any intel CPU is worth upgrading, you will also need to replace your motherboard.

Most important would be your GPU upgrade plans. If you want the potential to go quad-fire 7970s or 7950s, then socket 2011 is your man. But in all likelyhood, your next upgrade from 2 7950s or 7970s will be to a completely new series (AMD 8000 or Nvidia equivalent) and you'll probably never need more than 2 cards if you buy the right ones (Unless you decide to go with a 7680x1440 setup). If you stay at 1080p, then you only need 1 card for the foreseeable future.

Damn that was a lot of text.