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Got my NES RGB modded and it is incredible
Posted on 9/30/19 at 8:25 pm
Posted on 9/30/19 at 8:25 pm
I just got my NES RGB modded and it is amazing. It has the SNES, N64 and Gamecube style multiout video port on it now.
I can use Composite, S-Video and RGB cable all through the port. So I can use my Gamecube S-Video cables when I want to hook it up to a CRT tv with an S-Video port. The modder also added it to where I have the ability to turn the mod off and just use stock composite and RF of the NES.
It's got a 4 throw switch on it to change the color palettes, with one of the spots reserved to turn the mod off.
Needless to say, this thing is pretty loaded
. It's been recapped with new capacitors and the voltage regulator replaced with a new one so it's running like it's brand new now.
Now on to the reason I mainly had this modded, RGB! Wow, I can not believe the jump from composite to RGB. It is massive. It's like going from SD to 4k. The leap is enormous. I have it hooked up to my upscaler (Framemeister) and line doubler (OSSC) for 1080p output. The thing looks like an emulator now. It's razor sharp.
Pics don't really do it justice and my camera is not the greatest, but here's a some pics.
Here she is:
This is on the OSSC (for some reason my camera would not capture it at its correct brightness so sorry for the darkened pic. It's blindingly bright in person)
This one is on the Framemeister:
The OSSC looks sharper and brighter than the Framemeister in person. It's just my cam didn't capture it at all.
All in all, it's pretty incredible. So happy I got this done.
I can use Composite, S-Video and RGB cable all through the port. So I can use my Gamecube S-Video cables when I want to hook it up to a CRT tv with an S-Video port. The modder also added it to where I have the ability to turn the mod off and just use stock composite and RF of the NES.
It's got a 4 throw switch on it to change the color palettes, with one of the spots reserved to turn the mod off.
Needless to say, this thing is pretty loaded
. It's been recapped with new capacitors and the voltage regulator replaced with a new one so it's running like it's brand new now. Now on to the reason I mainly had this modded, RGB! Wow, I can not believe the jump from composite to RGB. It is massive. It's like going from SD to 4k. The leap is enormous. I have it hooked up to my upscaler (Framemeister) and line doubler (OSSC) for 1080p output. The thing looks like an emulator now. It's razor sharp.
Pics don't really do it justice and my camera is not the greatest, but here's a some pics.
Here she is:
This is on the OSSC (for some reason my camera would not capture it at its correct brightness so sorry for the darkened pic. It's blindingly bright in person)
This one is on the Framemeister:
The OSSC looks sharper and brighter than the Framemeister in person. It's just my cam didn't capture it at all.
All in all, it's pretty incredible. So happy I got this done.
4
Posted on 10/1/19 at 7:29 am to Contra
Looks great! Now will you go down the hole of modding everything with RGB?
Around ~2012 I went into this deep rabbit hole of modding the hell out of every console I had. I bought 2 studio RGB monitors (a 13" Sony BVM and a 20" Ikegami RGB monitor), tons of BNC and SCART cables for every console, a Framemeister, etc., modded everything for RGB + SPDIF audio, bought EverDrives for every console, etc.
A hell of a lot of money spent but it's worth it!
Around ~2012 I went into this deep rabbit hole of modding the hell out of every console I had. I bought 2 studio RGB monitors (a 13" Sony BVM and a 20" Ikegami RGB monitor), tons of BNC and SCART cables for every console, a Framemeister, etc., modded everything for RGB + SPDIF audio, bought EverDrives for every console, etc.
A hell of a lot of money spent but it's worth it!
Posted on 10/1/19 at 9:39 am to efrad
Yeah, this definitely ain't a cheap hobby, lol. But it's very worth it to me.
I haven't gotten everdrives and probably won't. I enjoy going out to game shops, pawn shops, flea markets, yards sales, etc, looking for the actual physical carts. It's all part of the fun factor for me.
I have actually thought about getting me a PVM or BVM. I currently use a Sony CRT (flat screen) with component and s-video, but it has geometry issues so I want to replace it. I'm currently in the hunt to find one of the rare curved screen CRT's with component. My dream CRT is the 20" JVC curved screen with component, but it's a bitch to find since it's so rare. But the hunt continues.
Luckily, most of the consoles I already have stock RGB/VGA. The ones I currently use and mean the most to me (from all the great memories) are PS1, Genesis (model 1; it does have the jailbars but it's not that noticeable unless you get up to the screen) and Dreamcast. And also PS2 but I use component cables.
Then I have Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, Sega Master System. Only the Atari 2600 and N64 has no RGB.
To answer your question, N64 is next on the list to get RGB modded :) so no I won't be stopping at least not right now. But that may be it. I had thought about getting the N64 HDMI modded, but I think I'll just stick with RGB. I'm going to get it with the deblur feature since N64 can be a blurry mess.
This is actually my second system with modded RGB. I bought an SNES Mini (1-Chip) pre-modded with RGB a few months ago so I never really got to do a comparison between composite and RGB. My (original that we got brand new as kids) SNES 2 chip that has stock RGB had a broken off power port so I hadn't been able to play it. I recently got that fixed and it's back working again, but I use the 1 chip SNES Mini since it outputs a crisper image.
This NES, I have been using this NES on the Framemeister through composite for months now so going from that to RGB is such a ginormous leap seeing it first hand. Everything is just crystal clear whereas before you just had a noisy image. No amount of upscaling to 1080p was going to help that composite signal, although it was still playable.
I haven't gotten everdrives and probably won't. I enjoy going out to game shops, pawn shops, flea markets, yards sales, etc, looking for the actual physical carts. It's all part of the fun factor for me.
I have actually thought about getting me a PVM or BVM. I currently use a Sony CRT (flat screen) with component and s-video, but it has geometry issues so I want to replace it. I'm currently in the hunt to find one of the rare curved screen CRT's with component. My dream CRT is the 20" JVC curved screen with component, but it's a bitch to find since it's so rare. But the hunt continues.
Luckily, most of the consoles I already have stock RGB/VGA. The ones I currently use and mean the most to me (from all the great memories) are PS1, Genesis (model 1; it does have the jailbars but it's not that noticeable unless you get up to the screen) and Dreamcast. And also PS2 but I use component cables.
Then I have Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, Sega Master System. Only the Atari 2600 and N64 has no RGB.
To answer your question, N64 is next on the list to get RGB modded :) so no I won't be stopping at least not right now. But that may be it. I had thought about getting the N64 HDMI modded, but I think I'll just stick with RGB. I'm going to get it with the deblur feature since N64 can be a blurry mess.
This is actually my second system with modded RGB. I bought an SNES Mini (1-Chip) pre-modded with RGB a few months ago so I never really got to do a comparison between composite and RGB. My (original that we got brand new as kids) SNES 2 chip that has stock RGB had a broken off power port so I hadn't been able to play it. I recently got that fixed and it's back working again, but I use the 1 chip SNES Mini since it outputs a crisper image.
This NES, I have been using this NES on the Framemeister through composite for months now so going from that to RGB is such a ginormous leap seeing it first hand. Everything is just crystal clear whereas before you just had a noisy image. No amount of upscaling to 1080p was going to help that composite signal, although it was still playable.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 9:40 am
Posted on 10/1/19 at 12:14 pm to Contra
Nice. The NES is one console I have not gotten modded yet, since I haven't bought the flashcart.
I ended up selling my framemeister once I found some PVMs, but I wish I had kept it. I sometimes feel like playing in the living room on the big TV. Lol
I ended up selling my framemeister once I found some PVMs, but I wish I had kept it. I sometimes feel like playing in the living room on the big TV. Lol
Posted on 10/1/19 at 12:26 pm to The Dudes Rug
How much of a game changer is the framemeister? I currently those scary to hdmi converters on amazon and like them a lot. Is there lag with the framemeister?
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 10/1/19 at 1:49 pm to willymeaux
A big game changer if you want to game on newer tv's. It's to be expected since it is a $300 piece of equipment with tons of options and inputs (Composite, S-Video, Component, Scart via the adapter that comes with it and HDMI inputs). It's going to be much better than those cheap HDMI upscalers on Amazon.
You can download profiles (for each system) and put them on a micro SD card to get the best picture quality. It can read 20 profiles.
This is what a Gameboy Advance game via the Gameboy Player on the Gamecube looks like on a Framemeister (scanlines are turned on):
They say there's a small amount of lag with the Framemeister but it's very low. I can not tell when I compare it to my OSSC which has no input lag.
The OSSC is a cheaper alternative. The only thing with an OSSC is tv compatibility. It can be a bitch. The Framemeister is more plug & play and has no tv compatibility issues. The OSSC's settings are also more complicated to use, but really if you read it up on it, you can get the hang of it.
You really can't go wrong with either one though. They both have their pros and cons. Framemeister has a frame buffer built into it while OSSC just spits out what it takes in which causes the tv compatibility issues. I've found that LG 4k tvs (which is what I have) seem to do great with the OSSC.
I like having both of them around to compliment each other. The Framemeister also does a good job of deintelacing. This is why I have my PS2 hooked up to it since most PS2 games run at 480i.
You can download profiles (for each system) and put them on a micro SD card to get the best picture quality. It can read 20 profiles.
This is what a Gameboy Advance game via the Gameboy Player on the Gamecube looks like on a Framemeister (scanlines are turned on):
They say there's a small amount of lag with the Framemeister but it's very low. I can not tell when I compare it to my OSSC which has no input lag.
The OSSC is a cheaper alternative. The only thing with an OSSC is tv compatibility. It can be a bitch. The Framemeister is more plug & play and has no tv compatibility issues. The OSSC's settings are also more complicated to use, but really if you read it up on it, you can get the hang of it.
You really can't go wrong with either one though. They both have their pros and cons. Framemeister has a frame buffer built into it while OSSC just spits out what it takes in which causes the tv compatibility issues. I've found that LG 4k tvs (which is what I have) seem to do great with the OSSC.
I like having both of them around to compliment each other. The Framemeister also does a good job of deintelacing. This is why I have my PS2 hooked up to it since most PS2 games run at 480i.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 4:14 pm to Contra
I've done lag tests for my setup before by hooking an SNES to my Sony BVM's RGB input, then daisy-chaining the Framemeister to the BVM's RGB output. I then ran 240p Test Suite for SNES off of my sd2snes cartridge. It displays a test pattern with a timer on it, so you can take a photograph with a camera and then look at the photograph to see the time differential between the CRT's display and the flat panel HDTV's display. That differential will be the total lag time for the whole video chain (Framemeister processing + TV panel's processing). However I've only ever used it with low-lag Samsung and Vizio panels in game mode.
The Framemeister adds a few ms of lag. You will not notice it unless you're used to gaming on CRT monitors. If you are used to gaming on CRT monitors, then you will probably notice.
1) I play a lot of speedrunning on my favorite old platformers like SMB3 and SMW. Playing on a CRT has much better handling when I'm making split second nearly frame perfect button presses. But if I just spend a few minutes warming up on the Framemeister, I can probably play almost as well.
2) The example I always use is Mike Tyson's Punch-Out for NES. For those unfamiliar, each boxer you play against has a pattern, and they telegraph their next moves by small visual cues. You have to identify the cues and react extremely quickly. It's a notoriously unforgiving difficult game. On a CRT, I can pretty much easily get all the way to Mike Tyson before he hands my arse to me (never have I beaten him). But on the Framemeister, I find it extremely difficult to get to Mike Tyson, and I have to really sit there and focus and work at it to make it that far. The lag just gives you such a small tiny window to react.
The other issues with the Framemeister vs. a real CRT:
A) Light gun games are still off the table. It's not the end of the world, but you leave behind some real gaming classics
B) A lot of games in the PSX/N64 era switch between 480i and 240p throughout the game. On a CRT this was no problem, there was no processor that needed to re-sync to the video signal. It just worked. On Framemeister, it needs a few seconds to re-sync. So on a game like Resident Evil 2 for N64, where the action of the game is in 480i but the menus are 240p (or vice versa, can't remember), you have to wait 3-5 seconds to see the pause menu and then wait another 3-5 seconds after the action resumes (in which case you very well may already be dead).
OSSC is practically lagless, but because there's no framebuffer, compatibility with TVs is not guaranteed.
So no matter whether you go with Framemeister, OSSC, or a real CRT, there are some concessions to be made somewhere, no solution is perfect. And that's how I blew way too much money on just buying every solution instead of picking a compromise
The Framemeister adds a few ms of lag. You will not notice it unless you're used to gaming on CRT monitors. If you are used to gaming on CRT monitors, then you will probably notice.
1) I play a lot of speedrunning on my favorite old platformers like SMB3 and SMW. Playing on a CRT has much better handling when I'm making split second nearly frame perfect button presses. But if I just spend a few minutes warming up on the Framemeister, I can probably play almost as well.
2) The example I always use is Mike Tyson's Punch-Out for NES. For those unfamiliar, each boxer you play against has a pattern, and they telegraph their next moves by small visual cues. You have to identify the cues and react extremely quickly. It's a notoriously unforgiving difficult game. On a CRT, I can pretty much easily get all the way to Mike Tyson before he hands my arse to me (never have I beaten him). But on the Framemeister, I find it extremely difficult to get to Mike Tyson, and I have to really sit there and focus and work at it to make it that far. The lag just gives you such a small tiny window to react.
The other issues with the Framemeister vs. a real CRT:
A) Light gun games are still off the table. It's not the end of the world, but you leave behind some real gaming classics
B) A lot of games in the PSX/N64 era switch between 480i and 240p throughout the game. On a CRT this was no problem, there was no processor that needed to re-sync to the video signal. It just worked. On Framemeister, it needs a few seconds to re-sync. So on a game like Resident Evil 2 for N64, where the action of the game is in 480i but the menus are 240p (or vice versa, can't remember), you have to wait 3-5 seconds to see the pause menu and then wait another 3-5 seconds after the action resumes (in which case you very well may already be dead).
OSSC is practically lagless, but because there's no framebuffer, compatibility with TVs is not guaranteed.
So no matter whether you go with Framemeister, OSSC, or a real CRT, there are some concessions to be made somewhere, no solution is perfect. And that's how I blew way too much money on just buying every solution instead of picking a compromise
Posted on 10/1/19 at 10:31 pm to The Dudes Rug
quote:
Nice. The NES is one console I have not gotten modded yet, since I haven't bought the flashcart.
I ended up selling my framemeister once I found some PVMs, but I wish I had kept it. I sometimes feel like playing in the living room on the big TV. Lol
It's definitely worth it if you plan to get it done, lol. Playing some TMNT 3 Manhattan Project tonight, I'm still in awe. Here's another pic of it my OSSC set to Line 5x mode (1080p output) with the settings dialed in:
Posted on 10/1/19 at 10:44 pm to efrad
You forgot the RetroTINK. It's only $100 and has no delay switching between 240p and 480i.
It's only composite/s video/component though.
It's only composite/s video/component though.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 10:52 pm to efrad
Oh yeah, forgot about Resident Evil 2 on N64. I played it recently on my Framemeister. It works with just the regular jumper pak, but you can't use expansion pak for the better resolution since like you said it's always changing and the screen goes black for a few seconds.
Another one is Sonic 2 two player mode on Genesis. It doesn't work on the Framemeister. The image becomes distorted if you try to.
There's definitely no perfect solution as each has their own faults. The Framemeister also has this weird thing where there's noise in the image that can be noticeable on solid/darker colors. But really, it's just a minor fault.
Another one is Sonic 2 two player mode on Genesis. It doesn't work on the Framemeister. The image becomes distorted if you try to.
There's definitely no perfect solution as each has their own faults. The Framemeister also has this weird thing where there's noise in the image that can be noticeable on solid/darker colors. But really, it's just a minor fault.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 10:54 pm to Contra
Retrotink. 
Posted on 10/1/19 at 10:55 pm to Contra
That looks crisp. I've never tinkered with the OSSC.
You've probably heard of the YouTube channel called "My Life in Gaming", but if not, definitely check it out. Those two guys have amazing guides on dialing in all consoles through the framemeister/OSSC or Scart to a CRT/PVM.
You've probably heard of the YouTube channel called "My Life in Gaming", but if not, definitely check it out. Those two guys have amazing guides on dialing in all consoles through the framemeister/OSSC or Scart to a CRT/PVM.
Posted on 10/1/19 at 11:09 pm to Korin
quote:
Retrotink
Definitely heard good things about it. It's similar to the OSSC being a line doubler. I saw this the other day the guy who created the RetroTink along Retro Gaming Cables are creating these HDMI solutions that are based off the same hardware as the RetroTink:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/RAD2X-HDMI-CABLES
Posted on 10/1/19 at 11:17 pm to The Dudes Rug
quote:
That looks crisp. I've never tinkered with the OSSC.
You've probably heard of the YouTube channel called "My Life in Gaming", but if not, definitely check it out. Those two guys have amazing guides on dialing in all consoles through the framemeister/OSSC or Scart to a CRT/PVM.
Yeah, it's even more amazing in person.
Oh yes, I watch their vids, lol. They know their stuff and put out some amazing content.
I use the FirebrandX profiles for both my FM and OSSC. That guy also really knows his stuff.
This post was edited on 10/1/19 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 10/2/19 at 2:35 am to Contra
quote:
The Framemeister also has this weird thing where there's noise in the image that can be noticeable on solid/darker colors. But really, it's just a minor fault.
Yeah i think that had to do with the cable quality. I used to get it bad until I got a better scart cable.
I just really want something that’s compatible with modern tv and that’s not too expensive. The HDMI box works fine on my tv, but when I brought my Saturn to a friends place, it wasn’t showing up on her newer tv.
Posted on 10/2/19 at 8:59 am to Korin
quote:
You forgot the RetroTINK. It's only $100 and has no delay switching between 240p and 480i.
It's only composite/s video/component though.
True, I did forget about it, but that's really because it does me no good being composite/s-video/component only. I've banished anything less than RGB in this house.
Everything is either RGB or HDMI nowPosted on 10/2/19 at 9:14 am to willymeaux
quote:
Yeah i think that had to do with the cable quality. I used to get it bad until I got a better scart cable.
I just really want something that’s compatible with modern tv and that’s not too expensive. The HDMI box works fine on my tv, but when I brought my Saturn to a friends place, it wasn’t showing up on her newer tv.
No the Framemeister definitely does have some issues with noise on blacks unfortunately. But I don't think it's something most people would notice unless they're trying to really scrutinize the picture quality. Though, to be fair, that's something that's fair game when you drop $400 for a video processor
Posted on 10/2/19 at 10:17 am to Contra
Who did you get to mod the NES? If you don't mind me asking. I haven't had anything modded other than my saturn, to play burned discs. I play most of my systems natively through SCART to the PVM...it all works out pretty nicely. And on top of that, I can't recommend Everdrives enough...they will change your life 
I knew the Dude's Rug would be up in here, once I started reading the first post.
I knew the Dude's Rug would be up in here, once I started reading the first post.
Posted on 10/2/19 at 12:12 pm to efrad
quote:
No the Framemeister definitely does have some issues with noise on blacks unfortunately. But I don't think it's something most people would notice unless they're trying to really scrutinize the picture quality. Though, to be fair, that's something that's fair game when you drop $400 for a video processor
Yep. It's an inherent problem with the Framemeister and not the cables. From what I've read it seems to have something to do with the analog to digital conversion.
Here's an example it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-Yjd2BGos
Most of the time you will not notice it. The beautiful image it outputs far outweighs these minor issues.
Posted on 10/2/19 at 12:17 pm to Contra
quote:
Yep. It's an inherent problem with the Framemeister and not the cables. From what I've read it seems to have something to do with the analog to digital conversion.
Yeah. You can get it to shift by messing with the A/D level setting. But one setting doesn't work for all content so you might have to keep messing with it. At this point I just ignore it and don't really notice
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