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Message
re: Sourdough Bread Eaters
Posted on 4/7/25 at 7:48 am to BlueRabbit
Posted on 4/7/25 at 7:48 am to BlueRabbit
My wife is interested in making our own bread for multiple reasons. It’s just not been a consistent practice yet because of so many competing priorities right now.
Ever since we learned we all have a gene mutation that prevents us from breaking down synthetic folic acid we have been very careful to try to eliminate as much enriched flour products from our diet. That is VERY difficult. So many store bought breads and bakery items use enriched flour it’s ridiculous. And when you find items that don’t they are twice of those that use enriched flour.
Even st. Bruno used enriched flour which is disappointing. The flour that is manufactured in Europe uses a wheat that is genetically different from what is grown in the US. The US has fricked our food supply in so many ways. We will continue to try to use flour imported from Italy/etc to avoid the stuff that is made here
Ever since we learned we all have a gene mutation that prevents us from breaking down synthetic folic acid we have been very careful to try to eliminate as much enriched flour products from our diet. That is VERY difficult. So many store bought breads and bakery items use enriched flour it’s ridiculous. And when you find items that don’t they are twice of those that use enriched flour.
Even st. Bruno used enriched flour which is disappointing. The flour that is manufactured in Europe uses a wheat that is genetically different from what is grown in the US. The US has fricked our food supply in so many ways. We will continue to try to use flour imported from Italy/etc to avoid the stuff that is made here
This post was edited on 4/8/25 at 7:26 pm
1
Posted on 4/7/25 at 1:10 pm to BlueRabbit
Just ate spinach and artichoke pizza I made with my wife's sourdough discard crust. Amazing
Posted on 4/7/25 at 8:11 pm to LSU Wayne
quote:
Ever since we learned we all have a gene mutation that prevents us from breaking down synthetic folic acid we have been very careful to try to eliminate as much enriched flour products from our diet. That is VERY difficult. So many store bought breads and bakery items use enriched flour it’s ridiculous. And when you find items that don’t the closet is twice of those that use enriched flour.
The FDA doesn’t require flour to be enriched but it is “encouraged “ and if you have a government contract of any kind enriched flour is required. This is part of the reason it is found in most baked goods. Because the large corporate millers conglomerates have some sort of contract so it’s just easier for them to enrich all of the flour rather than one line.
You can buy flour that is not enriched. Most whole wheats and King Arthur no longer enriches their flours. They also don’t bleach or bromate their flour. So for a home baker with something along the lines of what you have they should do well.
I use some of their flour for certain breads because it is a good flour for bread and it is affordable and in order to keep the cost down I almost have to use it.
Having said that- I also buy ancient grains-Khorasan, Spelt and Einkorn freshly milled direct from farmers . I buy heritage and heirloom grains which are modern wheat grown mostly in the early 20th century that have never been hybridized and are processed very little. Red Fife, Scotch Fife, Sonora.
You can order these in small quantities to use at home too.
I am starting a line of these because I have plenty that ask for them and because the flavors are incredible. In addition the nutrition and digestion are great for gut health.
I have a Salzburg Mill ordered that I should see mid May so I’ll be milling my own flour for these breads. In the meantime I order from a couple farms that mill the day they ship so it’s fresh. And I have a friend here in BR that has been milling my red fife.
I’ve been making a scotch or red fife and hard white wheat bread with no bran sifted out and it’s really good. I’ll have a few Saturday if you want to come sample. I put all of them out to sample. Really amazing breads.
LINK
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 4/7/25 at 10:21 pm to BlueRabbit
BlueRabbit, those are dang fine looking loaves of bread! You seem to have a good taste in music too on the socials.
I'm < 2 months into it and caught the bug. Baking a loaf a week and have learned a lot. Still don't really know what I'm doing though ha!
Finding myself gravitating towards rye and whole wheat country loaves. I've been using King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill flours, but definitely want to get into ancient and heirloom grains. I noticed a local bakery uses Barton Springs Mill, but I don't think I'm ready to start spending that kind of money until I get better. Are there any other mills you'd recommend to start experimenting with? I'm in TN and haven't researched much into local sourcing.
I love the idea of having a nutritious and delicious loaf to eat throughout the week, especially toasted to bring out the nuttiness with some fancy butter or as an open-faced Rugbrod-ish creation. Just bought an oval banneton so I can more easily make batard shaped loaves.
My last loaf was tasty but still feel like I'm guessing with bulk fermentation timing. 20% rye (KA), 40% whole wheat (Bob's), 40% bread flour (KA). ~75% hydration.
I need some notes!
I'm < 2 months into it and caught the bug. Baking a loaf a week and have learned a lot. Still don't really know what I'm doing though ha!
Finding myself gravitating towards rye and whole wheat country loaves. I've been using King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill flours, but definitely want to get into ancient and heirloom grains. I noticed a local bakery uses Barton Springs Mill, but I don't think I'm ready to start spending that kind of money until I get better. Are there any other mills you'd recommend to start experimenting with? I'm in TN and haven't researched much into local sourcing.
I love the idea of having a nutritious and delicious loaf to eat throughout the week, especially toasted to bring out the nuttiness with some fancy butter or as an open-faced Rugbrod-ish creation. Just bought an oval banneton so I can more easily make batard shaped loaves.
My last loaf was tasty but still feel like I'm guessing with bulk fermentation timing. 20% rye (KA), 40% whole wheat (Bob's), 40% bread flour (KA). ~75% hydration.
I need some notes!
This post was edited on 4/7/25 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 4/7/25 at 11:05 pm to Tigerbait46
That’s a great looking bread. Really impressive with those flours. Great rise and crumb looks good. I’d say you bulked that one right.
I use a Hanna 2 Bread PH meter along with water temperature and time. I have stacks of notebooks, binder with loose leaf full of every batch of bread I’ve baked in the last 2 years
All hand written. Just keeps my attention to the task at hand. Time to bulk, temperature, ph readings, ambient temperature, flour temperature, starter temperature.
When I get the bulk just right I highlight it and
when I overproof I highlight that so I can go back to them.
That’s a nice hydration on the upper end which in itself is impressive. The majority of what I make is 70% because it is tried and true and I don’t have to think about it too much.
But fresh milled is a thirsty thing. I start at 70 and depending on the flour go up to 80% which if I get it right makes great loaves with a lot of oven spring.
With the weather change to this heat I’m going from about 7 hours to bulk fermentation to 2-3.5 hours so when I move from season to season it takes a bit to get it back correct again.
I buy from several. I get my Scotch Fife, Rouge De Boudreaux, and Clark’s Creme from The Farmers Storehouse
Which is in Sparta, TN. They have a lot of good wheat and other items and will get in the phone with you about anything. When you order they mill it and it goes out the next day. Over $80 is free shipping.
I get my Red Fife and Hard White wheat from Dave’s Farms
Out of Utah. I buy his wheat berries in 50 lb bags with free shipping.
I also buy rye, einkorn and spelt from Bluebird Grain Farms out of Washington state. $9.99 flat rate shipping.
I live in south Louisiana so I have to bring in the wheat berries or flour so I look around and I buy in bulk but only what I can use within a month. Fresh milled will mold if it sits around. And I don’t have enough freezer space to store it. But the wheat berries last for years. One reason I’ve ordered my own mill.
Check them out
I use a Hanna 2 Bread PH meter along with water temperature and time. I have stacks of notebooks, binder with loose leaf full of every batch of bread I’ve baked in the last 2 years
All hand written. Just keeps my attention to the task at hand. Time to bulk, temperature, ph readings, ambient temperature, flour temperature, starter temperature.
When I get the bulk just right I highlight it and
when I overproof I highlight that so I can go back to them.
That’s a nice hydration on the upper end which in itself is impressive. The majority of what I make is 70% because it is tried and true and I don’t have to think about it too much.
But fresh milled is a thirsty thing. I start at 70 and depending on the flour go up to 80% which if I get it right makes great loaves with a lot of oven spring.
With the weather change to this heat I’m going from about 7 hours to bulk fermentation to 2-3.5 hours so when I move from season to season it takes a bit to get it back correct again.
I buy from several. I get my Scotch Fife, Rouge De Boudreaux, and Clark’s Creme from The Farmers Storehouse
Which is in Sparta, TN. They have a lot of good wheat and other items and will get in the phone with you about anything. When you order they mill it and it goes out the next day. Over $80 is free shipping.
I get my Red Fife and Hard White wheat from Dave’s Farms
Out of Utah. I buy his wheat berries in 50 lb bags with free shipping.
I also buy rye, einkorn and spelt from Bluebird Grain Farms out of Washington state. $9.99 flat rate shipping.
I live in south Louisiana so I have to bring in the wheat berries or flour so I look around and I buy in bulk but only what I can use within a month. Fresh milled will mold if it sits around. And I don’t have enough freezer space to store it. But the wheat berries last for years. One reason I’ve ordered my own mill.
Check them out
Posted on 4/8/25 at 12:08 am to BlueRabbit
Sparta, how about that. I'll check them out.
Thanks for the tips and encouraging words. This is only the 2nd or 3rd loaf I've made that was in the ballpark of properly proofed.
I started keeping a log and while I'm a little sloppy with it, I have found it helpful, particularly for honing in the temps. My first few loaves were dense on the bottom with big holes/channels above, which I understand could be signs of underproofing? The dough also seemed a bit too slack and sticky. I'm not monitoring PH but maybe I'll get there when I really want to start dialing it in.
I think I was making a combo of mistakes. My initial starter might've been a little weak and the ambient temp was a bit cooler. Hydration was too high at > 75%. I would get antsy after 5-6 hours of BF without knowing what to look for.
I've since transitioned my starter to rye (mostly by accident after doing a 90% rye loaf and enjoying the taste), but the bigger change is feeding a higher ratio when making the levain. I also started using Bob's whole wheat and that seems to perform better than KA. For BF, I use my oven with the light for a ~80 deg ambient temp rather than 70 deg room temp. This last one, I set aside ~30 g of dough in a small clear cylinder and monitored the rise that way, which was super helpful.
I see your loaves are 90% whole wheat. Would love to get to that level while still getting a nice rise!
Thanks for the tips and encouraging words. This is only the 2nd or 3rd loaf I've made that was in the ballpark of properly proofed.
I started keeping a log and while I'm a little sloppy with it, I have found it helpful, particularly for honing in the temps. My first few loaves were dense on the bottom with big holes/channels above, which I understand could be signs of underproofing? The dough also seemed a bit too slack and sticky. I'm not monitoring PH but maybe I'll get there when I really want to start dialing it in.
I think I was making a combo of mistakes. My initial starter might've been a little weak and the ambient temp was a bit cooler. Hydration was too high at > 75%. I would get antsy after 5-6 hours of BF without knowing what to look for.
I've since transitioned my starter to rye (mostly by accident after doing a 90% rye loaf and enjoying the taste), but the bigger change is feeding a higher ratio when making the levain. I also started using Bob's whole wheat and that seems to perform better than KA. For BF, I use my oven with the light for a ~80 deg ambient temp rather than 70 deg room temp. This last one, I set aside ~30 g of dough in a small clear cylinder and monitored the rise that way, which was super helpful.
I see your loaves are 90% whole wheat. Would love to get to that level while still getting a nice rise!
Posted on 4/8/25 at 5:00 am to BlueRabbit
I've been trying to bake my own for a while now. I haven't gotten bulk fermentation timing down right though. I think I was going way too long at first because everything I read said 8-12 hours. That was during the summer so I've got to imagine it was over proofed. I tried a few more during the winter and most likely under proofed due to not taking temps into consideration.
I've never really noticed a loaf double in size like is always described. I need to set aside a weekend and just do a ton of them at once. Let them go various amounts of time and compare the final product.
That being said, I have found a damn good cinnamon roll recipe that my wife loves, and she isn't a big sweets person.
I've never really noticed a loaf double in size like is always described. I need to set aside a weekend and just do a ton of them at once. Let them go various amounts of time and compare the final product.
That being said, I have found a damn good cinnamon roll recipe that my wife loves, and she isn't a big sweets person.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 9:14 am to ApisMellifera
For both of you above I have a couple recommendations.
The Sourdough Journey
The Perfect Loaf
These two guys have great content. Tom with SDJ does tons of research and puts all his content out for free. He is really good for the Home baker. Long format videos. Print some of his bulk fermenting guides and use them. They will dial you in.
Maurizio of The Perfect Loaf has great content as well and a great book. He also has a discord discussion group that is available with subscription but worth it for the beginning because it’s active like this board with likeminded enthusiasts.
Follow Wayne caddy on instagram with Sourdough Slingers out of England. He is very good.
Watch his Caddy Clasp for batard shaping and use it. I use the double caddy clasp and it was a game changer and a huge time saver. It also reinforces that it doesn’t have to be that difficult. Forget all the triple folds and stitching. It’s an easy way to shape and your Breads come out great.
A good basic recipe to use is Tartine’s Country Loaf. Chad Robertson is the father of the modern Sourdough movement and most of the bakers now start with that Bread and adjust to their own.
If you want to be a little safer to start drop the hydration to 70% instead of the 75%. You get a lot more feel for the dough and it is a lot less sticky which I think discourages a lot of beginners. And it really is that simple adjustment that makes a huge difference.
Don’t get overwhelmed with content out there. Follow the ones above and take all the others with a gram of salt. I never double my dough . Print the above and read all his bulk fermentation documents. It explains it all.
Don’t buy e books or some yahoo selling their starter on instagram. Those are just scams. If you want to buy a starter buy the one from King Arthur which is a live starter. Just follow the directions and after 2 or 3 days it is your starter and go from there.
If you are in Baton Rouge come see me and I’ll give you an active starter.
I like seeing people baking it and realizing how good it actually is. I’m not qualified to teach but I can point you in the right direction.
The Sourdough Journey
The Perfect Loaf
These two guys have great content. Tom with SDJ does tons of research and puts all his content out for free. He is really good for the Home baker. Long format videos. Print some of his bulk fermenting guides and use them. They will dial you in.
Maurizio of The Perfect Loaf has great content as well and a great book. He also has a discord discussion group that is available with subscription but worth it for the beginning because it’s active like this board with likeminded enthusiasts.
Follow Wayne caddy on instagram with Sourdough Slingers out of England. He is very good.
Watch his Caddy Clasp for batard shaping and use it. I use the double caddy clasp and it was a game changer and a huge time saver. It also reinforces that it doesn’t have to be that difficult. Forget all the triple folds and stitching. It’s an easy way to shape and your Breads come out great.
A good basic recipe to use is Tartine’s Country Loaf. Chad Robertson is the father of the modern Sourdough movement and most of the bakers now start with that Bread and adjust to their own.
If you want to be a little safer to start drop the hydration to 70% instead of the 75%. You get a lot more feel for the dough and it is a lot less sticky which I think discourages a lot of beginners. And it really is that simple adjustment that makes a huge difference.
Don’t get overwhelmed with content out there. Follow the ones above and take all the others with a gram of salt. I never double my dough . Print the above and read all his bulk fermentation documents. It explains it all.
Don’t buy e books or some yahoo selling their starter on instagram. Those are just scams. If you want to buy a starter buy the one from King Arthur which is a live starter. Just follow the directions and after 2 or 3 days it is your starter and go from there.
If you are in Baton Rouge come see me and I’ll give you an active starter.
I like seeing people baking it and realizing how good it actually is. I’m not qualified to teach but I can point you in the right direction.
This post was edited on 4/8/25 at 9:20 am
Posted on 4/8/25 at 11:35 am to BlueRabbit
Thanks for the info. There's so much content out there, it's easy to get overwhelmed.
I'll be in BR in July and hope to swing by the market to buy a loaf.
I'll be in BR in July and hope to swing by the market to buy a loaf.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 12:06 pm to Tigerbait46
Posted on 4/8/25 at 12:14 pm to BlueRabbit
I'll check it out, thanks!
quote:
Follow the ones above and take all the others with a gram of salt.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 12:41 pm to ApisMellifera
Posted on 4/8/25 at 1:14 pm to BlueRabbit
Now this is my kind of thread 
I got into bread making during COVID like a lot of other people. Wife bought me a Dutch oven and Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast. More recently I waded into sourdough, having made my own starter instead of getting some from a bakery. I wanted it to be entirely "mine" if that makes sense. It was definitely a learning curve coming from bakers yeast. My biggest problems now are 1. Giving it enough time during bulk fermentation and 2. Trying to resist cutting into a hot boule
I'll try to remember to take a pic when I make my loaves this weekend
I got into bread making during COVID like a lot of other people. Wife bought me a Dutch oven and Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast. More recently I waded into sourdough, having made my own starter instead of getting some from a bakery. I wanted it to be entirely "mine" if that makes sense. It was definitely a learning curve coming from bakers yeast. My biggest problems now are 1. Giving it enough time during bulk fermentation and 2. Trying to resist cutting into a hot boule
I'll try to remember to take a pic when I make my loaves this weekend
Posted on 4/8/25 at 2:04 pm to Ingeniero
Don’t cut the hot loaf. Just rip it. Break Bread. I love it too with some Kerrygold butter.
Are you making it all in one day?
I have a dozen whole wheat bulking now. Have another couple hours and coil folds to do then I’ll divide and shape them. Put in my banatards and let them sleep in the refrigerator until Friday morning then I’ll bake them. I’ll make another 30 or so tomorrow and Thursday and bake them all up Friday.
English muffins and batch breads which are enriched get made Thursday and I bulk ferment then in the refrigerator then divide and shape and proof for about 3 hours before baking.
Are you making it all in one day?
I have a dozen whole wheat bulking now. Have another couple hours and coil folds to do then I’ll divide and shape them. Put in my banatards and let them sleep in the refrigerator until Friday morning then I’ll bake them. I’ll make another 30 or so tomorrow and Thursday and bake them all up Friday.
English muffins and batch breads which are enriched get made Thursday and I bulk ferment then in the refrigerator then divide and shape and proof for about 3 hours before baking.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 2:20 pm to BlueRabbit
quote:
Are you making it all in one day?
Sometimes. If I'm not busy I'll do all the mixing, folding and shaping on Saturday, cold proof it in the fridge overnight, bake first thing Sunday morning. When I'm a little more pressed for time I'll do it all on Sunday and end up baking in the afternoon so it's cool enough to cut for dinner.
You may have answered already, but what flour are you using? I typically just do King Arthur bread flour if I want it white, add a little whole wheat and rye if I want it earthy tasting.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 7:56 pm to Ingeniero
I use King Arthur in some of my breads because it is non bleached or bromated but I buy their Special Patent which is the wholesale bread flour. Same as the bag in the grocery store except it is enriched so they can sell it to wholesalers and distributors. It’s a hard red wheat but I buy a lot from several I listed above so I can keep as much bran as I want.
The King Arthur is a good bread flour with pretty much no nutritional value. It’s high protein so it give you a good oven spring but you should definitely be using some others with it. Use their Whole Wheat at about 40% and you will get good oven spring and great flavor.
Or check out the ones above. There are a lot of small farms and millers out there that have great wheats that are affordable and you can try different ones. I use a lot of different sources since we are in South Louisiana and we grow rice, corn and soybeans I have to order.
The King Arthur is a good bread flour with pretty much no nutritional value. It’s high protein so it give you a good oven spring but you should definitely be using some others with it. Use their Whole Wheat at about 40% and you will get good oven spring and great flavor.
Or check out the ones above. There are a lot of small farms and millers out there that have great wheats that are affordable and you can try different ones. I use a lot of different sources since we are in South Louisiana and we grow rice, corn and soybeans I have to order.
Posted on 4/8/25 at 8:00 pm to BlueRabbit
And while I’m thinking about it I’ll have 4 or 5 pint containers of my 50/50 starter this weekend if anybody wants one.
Free to a good home and it’s a great mature half hard white wheat and half whole wheat.
Just come by or be caller number 9.
Free to a good home and it’s a great mature half hard white wheat and half whole wheat.
Just come by or be caller number 9.
Posted on 4/9/25 at 9:13 am to Tigerbait46
Here is a 90% whole wheat sun dried tomato, Parmesan and pesto I’m toasting for breakfast and will make a grilled cheese for lunch with it. No need for the accompanying tomato soup. It’s already in the bread. Just a tad over-proofed.
Posted on 4/9/25 at 10:24 am to BlueRabbit
What is it about that picture that tells you it is over-proofed rather than under or correctly proofed?
Posted on 4/9/25 at 10:31 am to chryso
It’s just a bit flattened out. You can help the shape when it is a bit over-proofed like this by scoring across the bread rather than down the middle. It will help give it a little more spring.
Plus you can tell when you take it out of the banneton and by the way it feels.
Just keep moving forward and practicing and it becomes kind of intuitive I guess. But the good thing is most of the time they taste great so if you aren’t entering your bread in a beauty contest just eat up. If that fails make croutons. Then after croutons bread crumbs. Then bird feed.
And of all the breads I make that one is my favorite. I like rolling it in the sesame seeds. They give it a nice contrast and add a good flavor.
Plus you can tell when you take it out of the banneton and by the way it feels.
Just keep moving forward and practicing and it becomes kind of intuitive I guess. But the good thing is most of the time they taste great so if you aren’t entering your bread in a beauty contest just eat up. If that fails make croutons. Then after croutons bread crumbs. Then bird feed.
And of all the breads I make that one is my favorite. I like rolling it in the sesame seeds. They give it a nice contrast and add a good flavor.
This post was edited on 4/9/25 at 10:34 am
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