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Lambic Brewers call for action against resell market
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:34 pm
quote:
Brewers Cantillon in Brussels and Drie Fonteinen in Beersel, just outside the capital, have called on the authorities to address online reselling of speciality beers. According to Jean Van Roy, head brewer at Cantillon, some foreign websites are selling the breweries’ premium beers at up to 10 times the retail price.
Both breweries produce lambic beers, which can only be produced in Brussels and part of Flemish Brabant because of the natural fermentation process that requires specific airborne bacteria.
Some people buy large numbers of the beer and then sell them online. “These are people who couldn’t care less about our beer and are only interested in selling them on,” said Van Roy.
Some of the brewers’ special edition beers can even fetch up to €1,000 a bottle in markets like Japan and North America, Van Roy said. “Our product was sold, that’s not the problem. The problem is that our loyal customers, who know our products and have been buying them for years, think we are passing them up. I’m tired of having to tell faithful customers that we’ve run out of certain stocks that they’ve seen online.”
The breweries have called on authorities to clamp down on the sellers, who pay no tax or excise duty on their profits. They also plan to offer their own online sales in an attempt to undercut the sellers.
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Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:42 pm to tduecen
quote:
They also plan to offer their own online sales in an attempt to undercut the sellers.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:48 pm to tduecen
I can see how the brewery would be pissed.
FWIW, i find Van Roy to be a wee bit eccentric. I guess with that brewery, he's earned it.
He was talking in a podcast about how he is adamant that lambics can only be called lambics if they are brewed in Belgium. The other brewers that were on (Russian River, Allagash, Rare Barrel) were all agreeing with him, but you can tell some of it was hesitant.
Who cares where it's brewed? It's a style. It's not a trademark.
And yeah i know about Wine in France and bourbon in Kentucky. I find all the "rules" to be rather unnecessary, personally.
FWIW, i find Van Roy to be a wee bit eccentric. I guess with that brewery, he's earned it.
He was talking in a podcast about how he is adamant that lambics can only be called lambics if they are brewed in Belgium. The other brewers that were on (Russian River, Allagash, Rare Barrel) were all agreeing with him, but you can tell some of it was hesitant.
Who cares where it's brewed? It's a style. It's not a trademark.
And yeah i know about Wine in France and bourbon in Kentucky. I find all the "rules" to be rather unnecessary, personally.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:51 pm to BugAC
quote:
Who cares where it's brewed? It's a style. It's not a trademark.
go to the next beer nerd festival and start talking about all the great American lambics being brewed and see how well that goes
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:53 pm to Salmon
People will find a way around that since they can only brew so much. However, it will be nice to have a direct way to buy from the brewery at a cheaper price.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:59 pm to tduecen
quote:
They also plan to offer their own online sales in an attempt to undercut the sellers.
I literally lol'd when I read that.
Get with the 90's people.
I'm not sure of their argument here. Once someone else owns the product, it is no longer in the brewery's control.
I guess you could compare it to ticket scalping.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:00 pm to Salmon
quote:
go to the next beer nerd festival and start talking about all the great American lambics being brewed and see how well that goes
I'm sure its much worse on the west coast than it is down here. We don't have quite the assortment of local sour beers to choose from, especially at festivals.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:02 pm to BugAC
I don't think it matters. Some beer nerds just lose their mind if you call anything not made in Pajottenland lambic.
I know Funk Factory gets a lot of shite from the nerds for calling their beer lambics.
I know Funk Factory gets a lot of shite from the nerds for calling their beer lambics.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:15 pm to BugAC
quote:
Who cares where it's brewed? It's a style. It's not a trademark.
Protecting traditional, local products is a big deal in the E.U.(i.e. Champagne) There are all sorts of rules and regulations on what product can be called "x" based on where its produced. So getting "lambic" designated as one of these traditional local products theoretically protects the jobs and traditions of the region.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:17 pm to Zappas Stache
I see people on BA saying that if they have a problem with this they should brew more to reduce the cost. Not sure they understand the process and how long it takes for Cantillon to brew a beer.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:22 pm to tduecen
I think Van Roy doesn't add sugar to his gueuze and only uses whole fruit for his beers, or at least he did back in 2003:
Jean Van Roy
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Cantillon in northwest Louisiana for years. Wine Country used to carry it.
Jean Van Roy
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find Cantillon in northwest Louisiana for years. Wine Country used to carry it.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:24 pm to webstew
We did the tour but you do it by yourself so no real explanation of the process as you go.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:27 pm to webstew
quote:
I think Van Roy doesn't add sugar to his gueuze and only uses whole fruit for his beers, or at least he did back in 2003:
He does not. However, his father did backsweeten their beers in the 80's, early 90's when sales weren't what they are today.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:33 pm to BugAC
quote:
Who cares where it's brewed? It's a style. It's not a trademark
In this instance, WHERE is an essential part of HOW. The local microflora is part of what gives it the character it has. There are some fantastic American wild ales out there.
But...still not lambic.
And even within the category of lambic, not all breweries/blenders are created equal.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:45 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:
In this instance, WHERE is an essential part of HOW. The local microflora is part of what gives it the character it has.
Yeah, but many breweries can propogate that microflora from Cantillon dregs and many have. The microflora to any area of the world is specific to that area. I just find it a little ridiculous. Van Roy was saying one of the reasons was because there were a bunch of breweries brewing what they called lambic, but was very bad beer (paraphrasing of course). I get that, but you can say the same for any style. I understand the difficulties of brewing the style. I just find the insistence from Van Roy to be a bit over zealous.
quote:
And even within the category of lambic, not all breweries/blenders are created equal.
Well that's a given. Same could be said for any style.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:22 pm to tduecen
Couldn't they ask their retailers to implement a 10 bottle limit or something?
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:43 pm to BugAC
quote:
Yeah, but many breweries can propogate that microflora from Cantillon dregs and many have
You're right, but what you are talking about is something that is living and evolving, albeit slowly, right before your tastebuds. As environmental changes occur, those microflora of course are impacted. That in turn informs everything about how the beer is made, or how they spin those changes off into new products.
If you're propping up dregs for your brews, that's great. It really is. With the quality of those dregs, if you know what you're doing, you're probably getting a great end result. But think about it like fashion, or any other sort of art. You can piggyback off what was fashionable last season, but because of some environmental shift it's fundamentally different than what is fashionable now.
Lambic, beer, these are not essentials (I know, it's hard to believe). These are luxuries. They evolve, sometimes rapidly, and the people that are the most respected in their field get to delineate terms of what is true to the style. That is, until they are usurped by someone that does it better.
If Van Roy says it's not lambic, dammit, it's not lambic. The end. Maybe it's an arbitrary distinction, I grant you that, but like they say in sports...scoreboard. There's your results.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:49 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:Have an upvote
If Van Roy says it's not lambic, dammit, it's not lambic.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 4:04 pm to Matisyeezy
I agree with what you are saying...
But if an American brewery does it better, does the naming rights go away? I agree cantillon has been doing the wild/sour beers better and longer than anyone, but American craft breweries are catching up mighty quickly and some of their beers could arguably be considered better than some cantillon beers. It's hard to define "better" in food and beverage. Taste is rather subjective, we all know that. And i'm not talking comparing cantillon to some guy that does quick sours and tries to call it lambic. I just find think that you can't really have naming rights to a style. If you want to do that, then either call your beer something else like Belgian lambic, or petition the brewers of the world to change the name of the Lambic style, and reserve it solely for Belgian breweries.
Another factor: i'm sure there is a shitty Belgian brewery somewhere producing shitty "lambic". Does his location alone matter?
In the end, none of this matters, i just like having beer discussion. And what Zappa said seems to make more sense, as far as naming rights in Europe.
quote:
That is, until they are usurped by someone that does it better.
But if an American brewery does it better, does the naming rights go away? I agree cantillon has been doing the wild/sour beers better and longer than anyone, but American craft breweries are catching up mighty quickly and some of their beers could arguably be considered better than some cantillon beers. It's hard to define "better" in food and beverage. Taste is rather subjective, we all know that. And i'm not talking comparing cantillon to some guy that does quick sours and tries to call it lambic. I just find think that you can't really have naming rights to a style. If you want to do that, then either call your beer something else like Belgian lambic, or petition the brewers of the world to change the name of the Lambic style, and reserve it solely for Belgian breweries.
Another factor: i'm sure there is a shitty Belgian brewery somewhere producing shitty "lambic". Does his location alone matter?
In the end, none of this matters, i just like having beer discussion. And what Zappa said seems to make more sense, as far as naming rights in Europe.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 4:08 pm to BugAC
quote:
But if an American brewery does it better, does the naming rights go away?
I would assume so.
...when Jean says so
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