re: Ghost in the Machine evolution

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this citra hop is not THAT different from that citra hop etc etc etc.... i dont get it

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The yeast used can make a big difference. And if they are using the same yeast over and over, it can mutate/drift after so many generations.

Here's a quote from John Kimmich about Heady Topper:

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"I have enjoyed reading this thread, because overall, everyone seems to be pleasd with what is coming out of the cans. SLIGHT differences from batch to batch are inevitable. Unfiltered, unpasteurized beer is a living creature. Aside from the differences in ingredients that Jerry mentioned, we are dealing with different generations of yeast. I could probably tell you if we are at generation 2 or 14 just by smelling it. These are tiny differences that I can identify, because I have been brewing with this yeast for 20 years. (btw, we get a fresh culture every three months)"

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I wonder where Parish is at with their yeast for Ghost. Have they ever reverted back to the source or what?

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He really liked it and said it reminded him of Pliny.

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this was what i thought about Grace and Grit, but i got panned for saying that. I drink as much Pliny as I can get, and G&G tasted very familiar. These guys(Ghost) could be imitating the perpetual award winner. I can't get it out here, so really have no idea if that is correct.

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could a mutated yeast strain affect the flavors usually provided only by the hops? i attributed most of the change from batch to batch to be related to hops due to the swings from juicy to dank, etc?

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Yes, I don't know what strain is used with GITM, but the esters produced by a lot of English yeasts (like the yeast the Alchemist uses) that are associated with 'juicy' IPAs become more expressive after a generation or two.

Conversely after a number of generations almost every yeast strain will mutate to the point where it no longer behaves like the original yeast and differences in attenuation, flocculation, and ester production start to become evident.

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Yes, I don't know what strain is used with GITM, but the esters produced by a lot of English yeasts (like the yeast the Alchemist uses) that are associated with 'juicy' IPAs become more expressive after a generation or two. Conversely after a number of generations almost every yeast strain will mutate to the point where it no longer behaves like the original yeast and differences in attenuation, flocculation, and ester production start to become evident.

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one would hope they have considered that....

Maybe they did

Two of the key ingredients in making craft beer are time and mystery.

Had some of this new batch of GiTM last week at Lagers on Severn.

At first I thought my taste buds had changed or it was the fact that I've had too much Opus recently, but this batch of GITM is much cleaner and Pliny-esque, leaning more West Coast than NE fruit bomb.

I have some singles left over from August batch of GiTM. I may pour a flight side by side of the November batch to confirm the West coast shift.