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re: patience on morganza
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:03 pm to SCOTLANDtheBRAVE
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:03 pm to SCOTLANDtheBRAVE
quote:
not to suggest it won't cause problems in the flood of 2015
Haven't you heard? The Mayans predicted the end of the world in December 2012. So what 2015 flood?
0
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:08 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
According to my data, there are no producing wells in the floodway that are not subject to being flooded even when the Morganza is closed. I am pretty sure that they are not holding up opening it based on oil and gas wells.
According to my data, there are over 2,000 wells in the Atchafalaya basin. They aren't going to flood when the Morganza is closed genious! I am pretty sure they are subject to being flooded if the corps is predicting up to 25 ft of water in some areas of the basin.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:11 pm to ricklsu
quote:
According to my data, there are over 2,000 wells in the Atchafalaya basin. They aren't going to flood when the Morganza is closed genious! I am pretty sure they are subject to being flooded if the corps is predicting up to 25 ft of water in some areas of the basin.
Very few of those are producing. Of those remaining, I am pretty sure they are built up high enough to withstand the water levels that are coming. Watch the tone.
Look at Sonris.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:12 pm to JudgeHolden
If any of them are like the abandoned ones in our area they are so rusted that there would be nothing to do anyway 
I have seen so many christmas trees with valve wheels rusted off it is insane.
I have seen so many christmas trees with valve wheels rusted off it is insane.Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:17 pm to bayoudude
Im not buying the sedimentation issue. The water that moves through for the first hour? 2 hours? will have been sitting on the upstream apron for days and only have very small clays suspended in it. I would guess that any sediment that will be deposited gets dropped within the first mile or two downstream no matter what the opening excercise is. Then it gets shifted around and slowly rolled down to the gulf I imagine.
Interesting topic though
Interesting topic though
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:21 pm to aldawg2323
Wouldn't you have a fair amount of scouring within the first say mile of the spillway once the water starts rushing through? I would love to see some after pictures of the area within close proximity to the discharge side of the gates after the 1973 opening.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:36 pm to SCOTLANDtheBRAVE
quote:
the power of the flow comes from the height differential. if there is 4 feet between the miss and the spillway, you get that sort of falling power. if the height is greater, you get exponentially more power. if the river is allowed to silt on the other side of the morganza spillway, you reduce the effectiveness of it with each foot of sedimentation allowed in the first couple of miles from the river.
I wasn't really asking for an explanation. What you are saying just isn't making sense. The water is going to have enough velocity that sediment deposition is not going to be a problem.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:49 pm to lctiger
quote:
based on the 61+ feet of water I think the pressure behind it will be just fine. It may spray all the way to texas when they open it.
Its not 61 feet of water.
That is the elevation above sea level the water is.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:51 pm to Volvagia
quote:
patience on morganza
quote:
based on the 61+ feet of water I think the pressure behind it will be just fine. It may spray all the way to texas when they open it.
Its not 61 feet of water.
The drop is what, about thirty feet? Maybe forty?
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:52 pm to the LSUSaint
quote:
Who gives a damn....any sediment buildup will NOT stop the water from flowing thru it. If anything, the water will cut trenches thru the sediment and eventually wash it away.
Its wouldn't be about stopping it, it would be about the back pressure of moving that silt.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:53 pm to JudgeHolden
14-15 foot I think at ORCS.
Dunno about the Morganza.
Dunno about the Morganza.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:54 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
The drop is what, about thirty feet? Maybe forty?
Looks like the ground contours are around 30' downstream of the structure, so if the River is at 60' then 30' of elevation head is about right.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:55 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Dunno about the Morganza
Just from a visual, it is a whole lot more than that at Morganza.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:55 pm to glb
Pretty safe to say there will be some white water rapids when it opens.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 3:59 pm to JudgeHolden
should be less than 20 . ..the corps is loathe to turn the spigot on full blast at greater than 21 feet based upon the '73 flood
Posted on 5/13/11 at 4:03 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Its not 61 feet of water.
realize that,just using that # to make my point. Bottom line is the only thing keeping them from opening morganza is that the critical number hasn't yet been reached and has nothing to do with concerns over sediment. You couldn't stop that water if you were trying to once those gates are open.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 4:07 pm to lctiger
quote:
realize that,just using that # to make my point.
Then your point was stupid.
You directly talked about the pressure behind 61 feet of water.
So you said that, knowing it is not 61 feet of water?
quote:
Bottom line is the only thing keeping them from opening morganza is that the critical number hasn't yet been reached and has nothing to do with concerns over sediment.
I honestly don't know. But what if that "critical number" was determined in part by flow rate/sediment backpressure concerns?
Posted on 5/13/11 at 4:12 pm to Volvagia
quote:
I honestly don't know. But what if that "critical number" was determined in part by flow rate/sediment backpressure concerns?
It doesn't matter if the tailwater was up to the base of the gate. They aren't attempting to reach 100% capacity. They are talking about something like 30% right? All they would have to do is open a few more gates.
None of this is even relevant because the water is not just going to stop and drop a foot of sediment in a 4 hr period.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 4:20 pm to glb
they are going to open the gates up one at a time slowly to reduce scouring and to give wildlife a chance to move to higher ground.
Posted on 5/13/11 at 5:36 pm to SCOTLANDtheBRAVE
quote:
the power of the flow comes from the height differential. if there is 4 feet between the miss and the spillway, you get that sort of falling power. if the height is greater, you get exponentially more power.
This is not true. Pressure varies linearly with depth.
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