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Message
re: Manufacturing in the U.S. Just Accelerated to Its Best Year Since 2004
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:49 am to Oilfieldbiology
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:49 am to Oilfieldbiology
I see what you’re saying and I agree.
I admit I’m a little too aggressive / optimistic in my thinking that certain segments of society should man up and acquire skills that help them transition into other industries more easily and more quickly, when in reality it will probably have to be a generational thing.
I admit I’m a little too aggressive / optimistic in my thinking that certain segments of society should man up and acquire skills that help them transition into other industries more easily and more quickly, when in reality it will probably have to be a generational thing.
1
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:49 am to Manzielathon
quote:Agree.
when in reality it will probably have to be a generational thing.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:51 am to Manzielathon
quote:
Putting it as simply as possible, our strengths aren’t labor / manufacturing. Our strengths are capital and technology. The only “manufacturing” we should be doing is of things that require immense amounts of either of those two factors.
How bout that iPhone made in China? How about all those Microsoft software developers based in India?
It's a myth that we're losing only manufacturing. We're losing it all because of onerous regulations and costs of doing business in America (you're a libertarian, you should know that). China has no EPA, which is why they can manufacture everything for so cheap. You can dump shite in their rivers all day, and they're cool with it. They don't have to buy liability insurance. If your iPhone has a Li-ion battery meltdown, they don't GAF. You ain't gonna sue them.
And, let's face it, most people aren't going to be nuclear engineers or computer scientists. They just aren't. What are your plans for the average working stiff? Working as a waiter? That's about the only option today.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:54 am to AUstar
I’m aware of those developments in technology manufacturing abroad, but I’m not sure what your point is as it relates to my position that America should not be doubling down on labor intensive manufacturing of non capital / technology heavy goods.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 11:55 am
Posted on 1/3/18 at 12:45 pm to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
Them Obama policies finally taking effect.
Correct. All those stimulus projects that were "shovel ready" are finally be started. #Forward! #Hope&Change #Resist!
Did I do it right?
Posted on 1/3/18 at 12:55 pm to Manzielathon
I agree with everything you're saying and have been confused as to why there is such a focus on manufacturing jobs when we clearly are a service based economy, like most developed nations. But shouldn't we let business owners and investors decide what the correct allocation of resources is? I'm guessing the investments aren't in products that require low skilled manufacturing like you would see in China, and more focused on goods that require higher skill sets and better quality. Otherwise it would be foolish to not produce them offshore.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:01 pm to goofball
Best year in over a decade
Oh that’s not really all that good
Predictable
Oh that’s not really all that good
Predictable
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:04 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Admittedly, my stance is based on the long term (25+ years) picture of American economic, political, military, and cultural dominance.
More libertarian bullshite. That is why I left the libertarian party because you idiots spew too much damn nonsense that focuses on the future and not the present. Who gives a rat's arse about the future, when you have ppl losing their jobs now?
quote:
I concede that in the short term, this does immensely benefit a sizeable, but not massive, population of low-middle income earners in this nation with a narrow range of skills and education levels. But over the decades, it’s not a big deal and potentially detrimental to our role in the global economy.
How is it going to be detrimental to our economy in the future? Having manufacturing jobs come back gives ppl jobs and a salary, they then pay taxes instead of collecting gubment checks or not paying taxes because they are working low-wage jobs, and that creates more tax revenue that can be invested in job training programs, votech, community colleges, etc that can reducate or retrain the workforce to keep up with the changing dynamics of the future economy.
quote:
America has already lost the manufacturing battle,
We lost the battle because we chose not to fight, but we have not lost the war.
quote:
Putting it as simply as possible, our strengths aren’t labor / manufacturing. Our strengths are capital and technology. The only “manufacturing” we should be doing is of things that require immense amounts of either of those two factors.
1. If you are really a libertarian, shouldn't we let the free market decide these things? That is exactly what is happening. Trump lowered taxes and repealed regulations and bam the jobs cam back or expanded? A real libertarian (not a liberal trying to be act like one) would love that.
2. Lets look and see what kind of manufacturing jobs are coming back or expanding:
quote:
Sixteen of 18 industries reported growth in December, led by machinery and computer and electronic products; wood products and textile mills reported contraction
The stuff that immense amounts of capital and technology are what are leading the increase.
quote:
What I’m talking about is very general though and changes drastically based on what exactly is being manufactured.
No what you are talking about is bullshite.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:07 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Our strengths are capital and technology. The only “manufacturing” we should be doing is of things that require immense amounts of either of those two factors.
We cannot employ 300 million people as bankers or programmers.
There is a place in the American economy to make cars and planes and dump trucks and tanks and guns and watches and chocolate. Commercial agriculture has a place in the American economy (preferably unsubsidized). Mining has a place in the US economy where we can make our matural resources (oil and natural gas) work for us.
Call me crazy, but when we build the first space elevator, I want that fricker to be stamped "US Steel" and every country who pays us for the privilege to use it will know the value of US manufacturing.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:26 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Who gives a rat's arse about the future, when you have ppl losing their jobs now?
Why would anyone give a shite about a small minority of uneducated, under skilled, low-middle income workers seeing a benefit from this trend ... if it all turns to shite in the coming decades as our position in the world is severely diminished?
quote:
How is it going to be detrimental to our economy in the future? Having manufacturing jobs come back gives ppl jobs and a salary, they then pay taxes instead of collecting gubment checks or not paying taxes because they are working low-wage jobs, and that creates more tax revenue that can be invested in job training programs, votech, community colleges, etc that can reducate or retrain the workforce to keep up with the changing dynamics of the future economy.
It’s detrimental because it’s not the optimal use of our resources. Do you know what the PPF curve is? Do you know any general models of economic markets and how labor and capital are distributed? How technology affects continued growth?
Also, you are grossly overestimating the amount of these unemployed manufacturing workers and their potential wages.
The notion that the increased tax revenue will be used to fund those kinds of programs is down right hilarious and furthermore the increased revenue is offset by an increasingly negative capital account balance.
quote:
We lost the battle because we chose not to fight, but we have not lost the war.
This is simply not true. Name a single developed country that is a manufacturer of labor intensive goods. Do you know the history of economic development and how free trade has changed the global society the last century?
quote:
The stuff that immense amounts of capital and technology are what are leading the increase.
I admittedly didn’t read the details of the article and was commenting generally on the rights new found obsession with low skill laborers ... but if you read carefully I said this ...
quote:
What I’m talking about is very general though and changes drastically based on what exactly is being manufactured.
Meaning if we are seeing an increase in manufacturing of capital and technology intense goods then it’s likely benefical to the country.
But those are only some of the industries seeing these trends, other far less valuable ones are too, and I think that hurts us in the long run as neither Americans or foreigners will be demanding those goods.
I’m not a liberal, I just understand how the world works.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:36 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
why there is such a focus on manufacturing jobs when we clearly are a service based economy, like most developed nations.
The focus is on manufacturing jobs so that we can "bring them back" or "create new ones" so that we can diversify our economy. That will put more $$$ into the economy and increase the service economy and help protect the national economy when one sector (i.e. banking or O&G) goes into a recession.
quote:
But shouldn't we let business owners and investors decide what the correct allocation of resources is?
That is what we are doing.
quote:
I'm guessing the investments aren't in products that require low skilled manufacturing like you would see in China, and more focused on goods that require higher skill sets and better quality. Otherwise it would be foolish to not produce them offshore.
Machinery and electronics (according to the article in the OP) saw the biggest increases, why is it foolish not to produce them offshore? Why is it foolish to have Caterpillar be the global #1 in construction equipment, or have the #1 & #2 in EU agriculture equipment sales made in the USA? The only thing that is foolish is to not understand how increases in US manufacturing is a good thing.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:42 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
Why would anyone give a shite about a small minority of uneducated, under skilled, low-middle income workers seeing a benefit from this trend
Because it keeps the American dream alive and well into the next generation.
quote:
if it all turns to shite in the coming decades as our position in the world is severely diminished?
Look at where the increase in manufacturing is. We are not increasing manufacturing of just barbie dolls and My Pillows (even though my My Pillow is amazing), we are increasing manufacturing in machinery, electronics, and technology. That is more than likely not going to turn to shite in the next 25-30 years.
ETA:
quote:
I’m not a liberal, I just understand how the world works.
If you think an increase in manufacturing jobs is going to be detrimental to the US; you do not understand how the world works. If you want to see what detrimental looks like, go visit the abandoned Guide plant in Monroe La, or any of the abandoned plants in Detroit. Look at how the loss of jobs was detrimental to the entire economy, and then get back to me.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:44 pm to WeeWee
The issue I have with your argument is you seem to be speaking broadly about manufacturing in general and then selecting your data from the industries that are, like you have been saying, a boon to the American economy.
We agree on that, and hopefully it continues ... but I’m speaking in the broad sense of the term manufacturing, and taking a long term view of the international economy.
If we are allocating resources appropriately, using our endowments correctly, and making goods that people across the world want to buy ... this is a GOOD thing. All my comments in this thread have been targeted at this weird obsession people on this board have with ANY and ALL manufacturing gains being a good thing.
It’s not.
We agree on that, and hopefully it continues ... but I’m speaking in the broad sense of the term manufacturing, and taking a long term view of the international economy.
If we are allocating resources appropriately, using our endowments correctly, and making goods that people across the world want to buy ... this is a GOOD thing. All my comments in this thread have been targeted at this weird obsession people on this board have with ANY and ALL manufacturing gains being a good thing.
It’s not.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:48 pm to goofball
quote:
Infrastructure is going to be hard to vote against
I get the feeling that dems are going to claim a infrastructure bill will kill millions of people.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:51 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
The issue I have with your argument is you seem to be speaking broadly about manufacturing in general and then selecting your data from the industries that are, like you have been saying, a boon to the American economy.
I'm talking about the parts of the manufacturing industry that are a boon to the USA because those are the ones that parts of the manufacturing industry that are adding jobs.
quote:
If we are allocating resources appropriately, using our endowments correctly, and making goods that people across the world want to buy ... this is a GOOD thing. All my comments in this thread have been targeted at this weird obsession people on this board have with ANY and ALL manufacturing gains being a good thing.
That is like saying that your team scoring any and all touchdowns is not a good thing. Any touchdown is a good thing and a reason to celebrate.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:19 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
f you think this is an optimal allocation of American resources and is overall beneficial to our economic strength, development, and / or geopolitical grand strategy you are either:
(A) a factory worker with limited skills and education who just got a job
(B) someone who knows very little about the international economy
Why do you explain how increased manufacturing in the US is not beneficial to our economic strength and development?
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:31 pm to BugAC
quote:
Why do you explain how increased manufacturing in the US is not beneficial to our economic strength and development
Because it's happening during Trump's term, so it's very bad.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 5:36 pm to WeeWee
I just realized the stark difference in the two most recent battle cries.
Dem in office: #Forward!
Republican in office: #RESIST!!! #REEEEESIIIIISSSST!!!!
Dem in office: #Forward!
Republican in office: #RESIST!!! #REEEEESIIIIISSSST!!!!
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