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re: The Wheel of Time -- Season 2 coming in September -- Wise Ones Thread (Book Spoilers)
Posted on 11/24/21 at 12:10 pm to squid_hunt
Posted on 11/24/21 at 12:10 pm to squid_hunt
Rafe just did an AMA on reddit and I highly encourage yall to read it. Lots of encouraging stuff in there. Here’s one response that should make people feel better:
“The change we made was not just with the fact that a woman could be the Dragon, the core change we made was that people are NOT 100% convinced that these 3000 year old prophecies are 100% accurate. I think it feels a little bit more true to the world, and you see the characters questioning the prophecies of the Dragon and the details of it much more in the show than in the books (although there are some scenes in the books that show this as well, we've just expanded on that). It seems quite trusting for the Aes Sedai, who trust no one, and especially Moiraine, who trusts less than no one, to believe with 100% certainty ANYTHING that was written thousands of years ago“
“The change we made was not just with the fact that a woman could be the Dragon, the core change we made was that people are NOT 100% convinced that these 3000 year old prophecies are 100% accurate. I think it feels a little bit more true to the world, and you see the characters questioning the prophecies of the Dragon and the details of it much more in the show than in the books (although there are some scenes in the books that show this as well, we've just expanded on that). It seems quite trusting for the Aes Sedai, who trust no one, and especially Moiraine, who trusts less than no one, to believe with 100% certainty ANYTHING that was written thousands of years ago“
1
Posted on 11/24/21 at 1:49 pm to Babble
quote:
The change we made was not just with the fact that a woman could be the Dragon, the core change we made was that people are NOT 100% convinced that these 3000 year old prophecies are 100% accurate. I think it feels a little bit more true to the world, and you see the characters questioning the prophecies of the Dragon and the details of it much more in the show than in the books (although there are some scenes in the books that show this as well, we've just expanded on that). It seems quite trusting for the Aes Sedai, who trust no one, and especially Moiraine, who trusts less than no one, to believe with 100% certainty ANYTHING that was written thousands of years ago“
But Saidine is tainted and is what caused the breaking, thus a man. This is just terrible spin by a group of writers and show runners trying to weasel their way out of an obvious inconsistency. All of this was done for Lord Woke, and as usual when that is your primary purpose it creates bad story telling.
ETA: I will add that all of what they are saying would be fine if there were no distinction between Saidine and Saidar. There is though, and it was developed that way for a very particular reason. This is the world of magic that RJ created, and it is undermining that world when you change it up. It's even worse when you don't change it up but twist it to some illogical effect.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 4:19 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
the core change we made was that people are NOT 100% convinced that these 3000 year old prophecies are 100% accurate. I think it feels a little bit more true to the world, and you see the characters questioning the prophecies of the Dragon and the details of it much more in the show than in the books (although there are some scenes in the books that show this as well, we've just expanded on that).
So he claims that is the core change and then immediately admits that it's not a change at all. I'm still hoping that they can find a way to back up from this ledge that they've created for no reason but this guy doesn't inspire much confidence.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 5:15 pm to shinerfan
quote:
all. I'm still hoping that they can find a way to back up from this ledge that they've created for no reason but this guy doesn't inspire much confidence.
Yep, pretty much where I'm at. There was nothing encouraging in that quote by him. And nothing will tank a show quite as quickly as shitty writing.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 5:33 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
All of this was done for Lord Woke
Can yall just admit that you’re pissed off that the characters arent all white and stop commenting in this thread?
Egwene and Nynaeve are both described as having darker complexions in the book. Robert Jordan has said that a woman could be the dragon and has been in the past.
They arent making these “changes” because they’re trying to be “woke”. They’re making these “changes” because, quite frankly, EotW was not written in a manner that lends itselt well to adaptation. To be honest, it is the most poorly written book in the entire series.
Seriously, stop watching the show. You’re willfully choosing to ignore explanations given to you because every single thought you have is inspired by whatever ideology you follow.
It’s so painfully obvious you saw the casting and since then decided to hate the show. So how about you just read the books and stop watching the show. You’ll be much happier.
There’s no room for actual thoughtful discussion in this thread because of this bullshite.
This post was edited on 11/24/21 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 11/24/21 at 5:38 pm to shinerfan
quote:
So he claims that is the core change and then immediately admits that it's not a change at all.
He’s saying that the prophecy wasnt changed. The change is that no one is sure if the prophecy is correct.
Yall are reading statements from the showrunner confirming what we’ve been arguing for pages and are still deciding to willfully pretend that they’re making major changes.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 5:49 pm to Babble
quote:
are still deciding to willfully pretend that they’re making major changes.
The dragon being able to be female is a destruction of the distinction between Saidar and Saidan, and a major change that disrupts major parts of storyline for the series and changes the prophecy by itself. The best case scenario is it just winds up being a case of shitty writing that simply just gets ignored and not brought up again in the series, worst case it derails the series. The only one willfully ignoring things is you.
And it's not just book readers that are having issues with the shite writing so far, feel free to peruse the nonreader thread on the movie board here for numerous comments about poor pacing and writing.
And the worst written book in the series is Crossroads of Twilight, and that's not even something that's really debatable. And winter's heart would be next IMO.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 5:58 pm to Babble
someone challenges your odd obsession and you fall into a rambling, nonsensical rage. You angry. Posted on 11/24/21 at 6:00 pm to auyushu
quote:
The dragon being able to be female is a destruction of the distinction between Saidar and Saidan
It’s canon from Robert Jordan’s own mouth that the dragon could be female.
quote:
feel free to peruse the nonreader thread on the movie board here for numerous comments about poor pacing and writing.
These are legitimate gripes which Id actually agree with.
Posted on 11/24/21 at 6:02 pm to auyushu
quote:
And winter's heart
Probably one of my favorites. Has two incredible iconic scenes w/ cleansing of saidin and elayne/aviendha becoming sisters
Posted on 11/24/21 at 8:46 pm to Babble
quote:
It’s canon from Robert Jordan’s own mouth that the dragon could be female.
Got a link for that? Never heard that one.
I'd agree about the cleansing part of Winter's Heart, that last 150-200ish pages is among the best parts of the series for sure. Unfortunately the rest of that book is mostly garbage and a waste of time.
Posted on 11/25/21 at 9:30 pm to Babble
Anyone watched the new episode yet?
Just turned it on - really good opening scene.
Just turned it on - really good opening scene.
Posted on 11/25/21 at 9:51 pm to Babble
quote:
So there could be a female savior but it would be a different soul than the soul of the dragon.
Yeah, and the key part there is him saying:
"Souls don't change gender, so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male, just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman"
So, basically as I've been saying (and others) the entire time, according to Canon for the series if the Dragon was in a females body they would still channel Saidan due to the soul not changing. Rafe is basically being an idiot going completely against what the author setup and planned with the world.
Hopefully they drop that thread long term and it won't effect the series too much, time will tell I guess.
This post was edited on 11/25/21 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 11/25/21 at 10:10 pm to auyushu
Isnt it basically just a way to allow for trans stuff in the WOT world?
Its stupid virtue signaling, but its not going to matter in the big picture because Rand is still the Dragon Reborn this time.
Its stupid virtue signaling, but its not going to matter in the big picture because Rand is still the Dragon Reborn this time.
Posted on 11/25/21 at 10:20 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
but its not going to matter in the big picture because Rand i
As long as they drop it and don't really harp on it, sure it won't matter much long term. But the idea that the dragon could be female and trans channelers in general means that female channelers can channel saidan and the red Ajah would be hunting down female channelers that are going insane. Which complete destroys the entire point of the Red Ajah and the entire mindset of the White Tower in general.
As you said it's simply woke for the sake of woke. And while I personally have zero issues with it in the real world (I'm a high school teacher who generally has 1-2 trans students a year in my classes and get along great with them), I just hate trying to force it where it doesn't belong with shitty writing.
They could have easily made a number of non-channelers trans in the show without detracting from the story at all.
This post was edited on 11/25/21 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 11/25/21 at 10:29 pm to auyushu
Episode 4 SPOILERS
Has some really interesting scenes with Logain which at least touch on a really cool aspect of the story and one of the scenes where he insinuates that he could have been the Dragon if he had fulfilled some of the prophecies.
Its left at that in the books, but that line always jumped out at me and definitely felt like they highlighted or at least let the question of who was / had to be the dragon up for further discussion.
Good episode I though, seems to be getting better each episodes as they settle into the characters and the world.
Has some really interesting scenes with Logain which at least touch on a really cool aspect of the story and one of the scenes where he insinuates that he could have been the Dragon if he had fulfilled some of the prophecies.
Its left at that in the books, but that line always jumped out at me and definitely felt like they highlighted or at least let the question of who was / had to be the dragon up for further discussion.
Good episode I though, seems to be getting better each episodes as they settle into the characters and the world.
This post was edited on 11/25/21 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 11/25/21 at 10:33 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Finished ep 4. Really strong episode, have to say I am loving the misdirects. That Thom/Rand conversation was so good, especially knowing what is to come.
Also, Nynaeve's power surge coming out not during the battle but tied into healing/Lan specifically was a nice touch.
Even enjoyed the Tinker stuff which is my least favorite plotline from book 1. The actress playing Ila is really good, and her explanation of the Way of the Leaf was a really good take on a lifestyle that can be hard to explain.
Also thought they handled Egwene really well, not having her be so into Aram as the book as that wouldnt make sense with the earlier episodes.
I also think it kind of works that Rand is getting downplayed somewhat early on, so when he emerges down the stretch it should hit even harder.
Also, Nynaeve's power surge coming out not during the battle but tied into healing/Lan specifically was a nice touch.
Even enjoyed the Tinker stuff which is my least favorite plotline from book 1. The actress playing Ila is really good, and her explanation of the Way of the Leaf was a really good take on a lifestyle that can be hard to explain.
Also thought they handled Egwene really well, not having her be so into Aram as the book as that wouldnt make sense with the earlier episodes.
I also think it kind of works that Rand is getting downplayed somewhat early on, so when he emerges down the stretch it should hit even harder.
Posted on 11/25/21 at 10:38 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
Agree on all those points, show is definitely hitting a stride I think.Logain not really using movements when channeling is also a good touch I think.
I'm really enjoying getting to play a bit of a guessing game on how they are handling certain things, what is a misdirect.
The misdirect on Matt this episode had me a little upset until I realized what was actually going on lol.
Off to bed for me now
I'm really enjoying getting to play a bit of a guessing game on how they are handling certain things, what is a misdirect.
The misdirect on Matt this episode had me a little upset until I realized what was actually going on lol.
Off to bed for me now
This post was edited on 11/25/21 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 11/26/21 at 12:11 am to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
Finished ep 4. Really strong episode, have to say I am loving the misdirects. That Thom/Rand conversation was so good, especially knowing what is to come.
Agreed all around, this was an excellent episode. Doing a great job with the misdirection.
Like how they are showing the taint on Saidan. And Liandrin was perfectly cast.
This post was edited on 11/26/21 at 12:24 am
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