re: Question about vaccine?

The biggest problem at all of this is the unequivocal declarative statements being made that people then use to ‘disprove’ the opposite idea.
In the beginning, the vaccines were felt to be approximately 95% effective. Does that mean it STOPS Covid? Well, an accurate statement would say it was highly effective, or greatly reduces, or whatever. But they, for effect, make an absolute statement. That then gives opponents ‘ammunition’ to ‘disprove’ the statement, as you are doing.

So yes. You are correct. It does not STOP Covid. There are failures.
That does not mean it is ineffective. That is an equivalent exaggerated absolute in the other direction.

So, we have a vaccine that is pretty effective, greatly reduces spread while not eliminating it. It is true that people infected with breakthrough infections can spread the virus. It even seems to be true that some people can carry high viral loads without having symptoms, and may be able to transmit that as well. But none of those statements are the same as saying it is useless or it doesn’t work.
It’s not an absolute. Just like pretty much any medical treatment is not an absolute.

So far, it seems that vaccinated populations get sick less than unvaccinated. That’s really the main reason why you see some vaccination proponents trying to push it on other people. Evidence suggests that if more people have the vac, there will be less total infections and less total viral replication in that community. Less total infections will equal less variants ( variants come through replication errors) and less of all this crap we are all having to go through.

In the end, everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with and accept the result. That result goes beyond just oneself, however.

But everyone, on both sides, also needs to quit playing gotcha games. It just adds to all the misinformation noise. Correcting an absolute statement that is TECHNICALLY wrong because it’s not absolutely true, with another absolute, makes little sense and contributes nothing

I’m 79, in good shape and health but decided to get the vaccine to give me a boost of protection. I’ve had no side effects nor am I scared of any long term ones either. If I do get the virus and the symptoms are mild, it was worth it.

I took it because I had some routine health exams and didn't want to wear a mask each trip to the DR.
Guess I was premature in "believing in the science".

quote:

---

that's not true at all and is an absurd suggestion that you wouldn't apply to anything else.

---

What's absurd is pretending that the context is the same regardless of the topic. Yes, there is a different implied threshold between a vaccine that works and a blood pressure medicine that works. If some guy fixes your truck and it breaks down before you get out of the parking lot, you don't accept "well, no fix is 100%, you should know that". At the same time you don't bring it back to him 5 years and 100,000 miles later and claim he didn't fix it correctly.

To the topic at hand, I have zero problem with "the vaccine greatly reduces your chance of death" or any other phrase people want to use that's backed up by data. I don't have a problem with the vaccine, I have a problem with bullshite claims that are later walked back. If it's 80% effective just admit it's 80% effective. There's a reason the CDC has become a laughing stock, and it's because they can't be accurate and honest up front.

quote:

---

The biggest problem at all of this is the unequivocal declarative statements being made that people then use to ‘disprove’ the opposite idea.

---

Correct, but I'm not trying to say anything about the vaccine other than the unequivocal declarative statements are bullshite. The fact that they're bullshite doesn't mean the opposite is true and the vaccine is therefore horribly dangerous or ineffective or anything else, it just means a bullshite statement is bullshite.

quote:

---

You are apparently that dishonest.

---

Don't do this to yourself. Seriously. You are a far better poster.

The statement by the CDC you are looking for is:

"Getting the vaccine doesn’t stop one from getting or spreading the virus, rather it just reduces symptoms."

So link it.

You won't. You can't.
Why?
Because it doesn't exist.

What's more, you unlike the OP, realize it doesn't exist.

I don't know why you walked yourself into a corner. Nor do I want to zing you further. I don't. I like you as a poster.

But it is far more important to me to put accurate medical material out here, than to shield you from yourself.

Think before you persist

quote:

---

Don't do this to yourself.

---

I’m fine with the thread speaking for itself. You want to double down because OMG THATS NOT EVEN THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE LOL FAIL!!! go right ahead. I know exactly what that statement by the CDC means and so does everybody else.

quote:

---

You look stupid.

---

You look dishonest.

quote:

---

You look dishonest.

---

Only to stupid people.

I don't dishonestly post anything here, ever, much less anything scientific or medical. That's why when someone claims I posted something in the past I know I wouldn't post, it's quite easy to respond. e.g., That's what made it so easy to eat BamaAtl's lunch here until he hit the road.

quote:

---

if it is 80% effective and greatly reduces your chance of death that is the intended effect of a vaccine and it means the vaccine works.

---

I would have thought the intended effect of a vaccine is 100% effectiveness. Are you telling me we're actually aiming for 80% and not trying for 100%?

Your word games aside, if it's 80% effective that means it works at an 80% rate. This is why nobody trusts any information any more on covid, because there are claims of 95% and then when it slips to 90% then 85% they're being told that nothing has changed, "it still works, trust us." Like I said, just be accurate with your language and you won't have to keep moving the goalposts.

But it's a little late for that at this point.