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re: The world's biggest deserts could be the best places for harvesting solar energy, right?
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:08 pm to Marquesa
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:08 pm to Marquesa
quote:
Decent home grade solar panels are about 20% efficient.
That sounds about right for your normal bankable units. Prob a little more for SunPower and a few other top tier manufacturers.
quote:
Also, I assume commercial panels would be a bit more efficient.
The module nameplate production density (watts/M2) wouldn’t change necessarily, but you would see an increase in expected production out of similar nameplate installations because they would optimize position, use trackers maybe, get away from MLPE to avoid electronic consumption, use 72 cell modules, etc. the modules are typically the same but they can optimize production better than a resi install.
1
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:19 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
But do you start the project just HOPING
For me the above would depend on who's money their spending "hope" on.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:22 pm to L.A.
It's no secret that solar panels lose efficiency if they get too hot. The technology simply isn't there. Just look at a map of solar irradiance.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:42 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
It's no secret that solar panels lose efficiency if they get too hot. The technology simply isn't there. Just look at a map of solar irradiance.
The struggle is real. Ambient temp efficiency vs. Irradiance density. Oddly, they tend to balance each other out at scale with irradiance density usually winning out.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:45 pm to billjamin
When solar (and wind) is a good percentage of your energy grid, I assume the energy companies look at forecasts to get some ideas how much power can be generated under those conditions. Then they would make necessary adjustments with more traditional sources. Is this correct?
I didn't read most of the Texas freezing threads once they took on a political angle and less technical so apologies if this has been discussed over and over.
Did Texas try to make those adjustments but the freeze impacted there as well? Or was the severity unexpected and wind and solar were still expected to operate close to normal capacity?
If this is old news, wrong discussion for this thread or too politically charge to discuss, please ingore my questions.
I didn't read most of the Texas freezing threads once they took on a political angle and less technical so apologies if this has been discussed over and over.
Did Texas try to make those adjustments but the freeze impacted there as well? Or was the severity unexpected and wind and solar were still expected to operate close to normal capacity?
If this is old news, wrong discussion for this thread or too politically charge to discuss, please ingore my questions.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 2:58 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
When solar (and wind) is a good percentage of your energy grid, I assume the energy companies look at forecasts to get some ideas how much power can be generated under those conditions. Then they would make necessary adjustments with more traditional sources. Is this correct?
I can’t speak to how much they actually use it, but production modeling that looks at projected production yield beyond just nameplate generation has been done on every project I’ve ever been involved in. They’ll look at weather patterns, maintenance downtime, failure rates etc. and come up with a production model to feed the financial model. I know it’s done and submitted but who knows if they look at it.
quote:.
Did Texas try to make those adjustments but the freeze impacted there as well? Or was the severity unexpected and wind and solar were still expected to operate close to normal capacity?
It’s hard to know exactly what they expected but my buddies who are more involved in that side said wind was expected to produce about 7% for February from the models. That’s off a 23% nameplate so that’s give you an idea of how much they degrade the production for the winter months. I would say going to zero was a bit of a hit. Especially for that region, but there is something like 20x more Fossil gen interconnected to cover that gap. Where it got really sideways was a lot of gen units were down for scheduled maintenance, renewables temporarily hit almost zero, and the NG supply chain broke in spectacular fashion.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 3:20 pm to billjamin
Was the NG breakdown due to weather as well or just one part in a chain of events as well?
This is my last question about Tejas. I will not change the subject of the thread again. Thank you for your patience.
This is my last question about Tejas. I will not change the subject of the thread again. Thank you for your patience.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 3:31 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
Serious question, any idea if a large city would actually have a worse effect with pavement, glass and building?
Well, urban heat islands are a real thing. A lot of bad data regarding exaggerated AGW claims comes from this comparison of apples to plutonium (hand-recorded Mercury thermometer readings in the 1880s compared to computerized satellite laser readings in the late 20th/early 21st Century), coupled with a significant increase in thermal mass of various urban areas, expanded use of climate control, etc., over that period of time.
Many of those with a relatively extreme environmental leaning often ignore second/third order effects in their "anything but fossil or nuclear" stance. We need fossil fuels and nuclear fission for industrial production of power until the fossils are gone OR we perfect fusion power.
All solar and wind do is make white liberals feel better about electricity. They're all built/maintained/serviced/replaced/bolstered by petroleum products and a petroleum/coal/nuclear electrical infrastructure - and will be for the foreseeable future.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 3:41 pm to Ace Midnight
Thank you for that information Ace.
I personally do think we should try to have renewable energy as part of our system but mainly to curb some fossil fuel dependancies. Primarily because it's not a commodity we need from other nations. But overall, I think we are close in opinion.
I personally do think we should try to have renewable energy as part of our system but mainly to curb some fossil fuel dependancies. Primarily because it's not a commodity we need from other nations. But overall, I think we are close in opinion.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 3:46 pm to Ace Midnight
I realize dark glass absorbs the most energy, but I did see a nice discussion about using tinted, or even clear glass instead. Then every skyscraper, windshield, iphone or window in your home could be used dual purpose.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 3:57 pm to trinidadtiger
I saw something similar to that as well Trinidad, but I felt my question I would ask would be too elementary. I even googled the light colored tinting of panels.
I didn't want billjamin to think less of me. I enjoy his contributions.
I posted this in another thread but I would like to thank posters here as well.
Well fine sirs/madams, I have chores to do. I will check back but if this thread difts away, I would like to thank you for the cordial, informative conversation! It was a pleasure.
I didn't want billjamin to think less of me. I enjoy his contributions.
I posted this in another thread but I would like to thank posters here as well.
Well fine sirs/madams, I have chores to do. I will check back but if this thread difts away, I would like to thank you for the cordial, informative conversation! It was a pleasure.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 4:11 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
I think I recall seeing an article many years ago that the heat generated by Atlanta creates an abnormal weather pattern for a few hundred miles to the east of Atlanta into SoCar.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 4:22 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Nuclear.
This is the way.
5th generation nuclear that is meltdown proof or truly fail-safe would be the best. Lots of ideas and designs out there, but...
Posted on 2/21/21 at 4:24 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
Was the NG breakdown due to weather as well or just one part in a chain of events as well?
Weather related. The supply chain froze up. Some have inferred that if they had been ramped up earlier they wouldn’t have frozen, but I’m not buying that until I see some data.
ETA besides supply chain for NG, other thermal units had problems with the cooling unit equipment freezing and having to go offline due to losing temp control ability.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 4:30 pm to COAUTiger
quote:
I saw something similar to that as well Trinidad, but I felt my question I would ask would be too elementary. I even googled the light colored tinting of panels. I didn't want billjamin to think less of me. I enjoy his contributions.
There are modules with different color backing and even clear (google bi-facial solar). They help but it’s minimal. The bi-facial are cool because they not only help with the heat issue but offer slightly better performance. Unfortunately it’s next to impossible to accurately model the impact of bi-facial on a per project basis because of the insane amount of variables so the production modeling is keeping there from being much investment. But, I’ve seen some carports done with them i commercial jobs and the performance was pretty damn good.
This post was edited on 2/21/21 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 2/21/21 at 5:00 pm to HubbaBubba
frick that left-wing prog piece of shite. That is the way.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 5:09 pm to L.A.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 5:10 pm to billjamin
Solar produces as DC Power. It is then converted to AC before it leaves the sled.
The biggest killer in solar efficiency is ...heat. As heat builds in the panel the efficiency declines rapidly.
On large solar farms there is a sled designed to be assembled and transported by truck. About 8-9 feet wide and forty to forty five feet long. On that sled, is the converter, a distribution transformer and computer controls.
I've seen two locations in North America that is totally renewable energy. Ontario Hydro and wind or solar. The Oregon Gorge that is Hydro Bonneville Power (Army Corps of Engineers) No fossil fuel at either location and the hydro can supply all the power that is needed. To run a wind or solar farm requires a power source upstream ...most are fossil fuel plants. Wind consumes power at a massive rate until the the wind is strong enough to stop the motors required to spin the propeller.
The biggest killer in solar efficiency is ...heat. As heat builds in the panel the efficiency declines rapidly.
On large solar farms there is a sled designed to be assembled and transported by truck. About 8-9 feet wide and forty to forty five feet long. On that sled, is the converter, a distribution transformer and computer controls.
I've seen two locations in North America that is totally renewable energy. Ontario Hydro and wind or solar. The Oregon Gorge that is Hydro Bonneville Power (Army Corps of Engineers) No fossil fuel at either location and the hydro can supply all the power that is needed. To run a wind or solar farm requires a power source upstream ...most are fossil fuel plants. Wind consumes power at a massive rate until the the wind is strong enough to stop the motors required to spin the propeller.
Posted on 2/21/21 at 5:15 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
No thanks.
why - is it racisssss??
Posted on 2/21/21 at 5:18 pm to L.A.
(no message)
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