re: What is your definition of socialism? And why or why not is it an effective system?

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What if the American dream was centered around doing your part in society instead of personal gain? Could that work?

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In a socialist society, the goal is for everybody to be the same. Doing your part, is just being like the rest. If you were satisfied with that system, why would you go rocking the boat? That would mean that you think you are better than everyone else. You would be a threat to utopia. You would end up on the end of a pitchfork.

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But could there be other reasons behind the drive to innovate besides profit? If everyone’s basic needs are met, can the task itself be worthy and fulfilling? What if the American dream was centered around doing your part in society instead of personal gain? Could that work?

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The very first reply in this thread - mine - addresses this.

You have made it abundantly clear that you don’t understand incentives, or you simply refuse to admit what you know to be true. No magical fairy dust pie in the sky notion of “the greater good” will ever make me care about your needs above my own or those of my family. It really is that simple.

“Wouldn’t it be nice if the good of society was sufficient motivation to drive innovation and risk?”

Maybe, but it’s completely irrelevant. It never will be. Ever. It’s a total non starter. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you can stop being so confused as to why people reject socialism.

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But could there be other reasons behind the drive to innovate besides profit? If everyone’s basic needs are met, can the task itself be worthy and fulfilling? What if the American dream was centered around doing your part in society instead of personal gain? Could that work?

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The ship sailed on this long, long ago.

The only way for the above to be true, is actually through Christianity. Modern culture has largely replaced the pursuit of God - defined as unending worship and joy in God - with happiness through consumerism and a life of eve growing efficiency and comfort. And honestly, even for hardcore Christians, there is no going back.

But we were well on our way to doing that long ago. We are human, seeking out pleasure, and reducing stress by any means necessary is precisely how we condition ourselves for happiness when God isn't involved (this is why Catholicism is explicitly engaged in conversations around sacrifice, sin, etc. Sacrifice is necessary because our desire for pleasure is so strong, even if it isn't strict sin).

When you take away God, and focus clearly on terrestrial existence, you find that everything is limited, therefore, there will always be value placed on goods, interactions, etc. Having the ability to procure those things requires commerce and money, which means humans inevitably engage in resource struggles.

This happens at the low end - competing for jobs - and at the high end - national conflict and war. All of this cements itself into our "modern situation."

Read: Because you MUST gain personally to continue your pleasure and reduce stress, strain and pain, you have to think only about yourself. There are few other legitimate options. And even "doing your part in society," might actually empower your country to "take" resources from someone else in whatever way necessary.