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TigerDroppings.....not much grey on Jamarcus Russell.

Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:33 pm
Posted by LSU Diablo
Dallas, TX
Member since Apr 2007
206 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:33 pm
I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of "in between" when it comes to opinions about Jamarcus Russell on this board. Some of you cite his overwhelming talent and NFL draft stock as evidence that he is the greatest QB in LSU history. Others seem to zero in on every miscue that he had during his tenure at LSU, holding him accountable for things that you conveniently ignore about our other QB's past and present.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.

My opinion is that Russell is certainly the most talented QB to ever play at LSU. He is also one of the most underrated clutch performers in the history of the program. I counted a total of 4 4th quarter come-from-behind wins that he engineered and I may be forgetting a few. He was also the UNQUESTIONED leader of that team in 2005 and 2006 as evidenced by the fact that none of the players, at least publicly, supported giving Flynn even the possibility of being the QB in 2006 after the Peach Bowl in 2005.

That being said, he is in my mind a step and a half shy of being the greatest QB in school history. My feeling is that Rohan Davey was a more effective QB than Jamarcus was at the college level. In all fairness, Jamarcus had more NFL talent at receiver to work with in Craig Davis, Dwayne Bowe, and Early Doucet, but Rohan had Josh Reed who was far better at the college level than either of those three. I think that Rohan was better at executing Jimbo Fisher's offense than was Jamarcus. He also responded better against quality defenses, although that had a lot to do with Josh Reed. It is undeniable that Jamarcus Russell came up short against the two best defenses he faced all year in 2006.

The thing is, it is tough to fairly compare the two because Rohan really only had one solid year as the starting QB at LSU. If Ro had had three years with Jimbo as the OC, I think he would have made a run at being the best QB in school history. Likewise, I think that if Jamarcus had stayed for his senior year with Gary Crowton calling the plays (Jimbo’s performances were becoming stale by the time he left for FSU), Jamarcus might have taken the distinction for himself. I have submitted to the notion that both QB's are probably among the greatest "might have been's" at QB in LSU history. They both flexed their talent with the right offense and the right players around them but neither played long enough to be called the best ever at LSU. I still to this day bestow that distinction on Bert Jones and Tommy Hodson.

Not that there isn't enough discussion about this already on this board but I hadn't yet chimed in. Discuss.....
Posted by apacheba
Member since Feb 2007
870 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:36 pm to
It's a weekend, so only ... 4 pages

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468089 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

Some of you cite his overwhelming talent and NFL draft stock as evidence that he is the greatest QB in LSU history.

whoa whoa whoa

why don't we look at his actual production on the field? forget the talent and NFL draft slot

JR had the best season at QB in LSU history in 2006

he was the best QB in CFB in 2006

that's why people say he's the best

quote:

My feeling is that Rohan Davey was a more effective QB than Jamarcus was at the college level

but his stats aren't as effective

quote:

I think that Rohan was better at executing Jimbo Fisher's offense than was Jamarcus.

again, why didn't he produce better?

quote:

. In all fairness, Jamarcus had more NFL talent at receiver to work with in Craig Davis, Dwayne Bowe, and Early Doucet

and as you said, rohan had reed. he also had mike clayton

and more important, rohan had a 1,000 yard rusher while JR didn't really have much in the run game 2006 until keiland got the rock from UT on. hester/JV/alley were mediocre-bad, and were all horrible against auburn

Posted by apacheba
Member since Feb 2007
870 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:43 pm to
I know it won't help the discussion but to me it's largely subjective. Comparing different players from different eras is the meat and potatoes of a forum like this but when you get down to it the comparisons always have flaws and we're entitled to our own opinions.

Also, anybody who doesn't think JaMarcus Russell was the greatest QB in LSU history is a moron.

Posted by lsuoilengr
Member since Aug 2008
5361 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:44 pm to
Ill never forget that 4th and goal against Ole Miss. Jamarcus to Bowe for the WIN!!!!!!!11
Posted by Suntiger
STG or BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
35784 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:45 pm to
That was way too much to read, but my take:

JR was probably the most talented QB to play for LSU in the modern era. That being said, Saban really screwed him over by rotating him and M. Randall, when we should have just put in JR and let him take his lumps. That being said, he never had much opportunity to develop touch or acuracy and that was never his strong points.

He had a cannon for an arm and could run like a brusing full back. He helped win a lot of games and did make a lot of great plays. He also overthrew some WR's and made some bone head plays. Another year would have likely made him a legendary player for LSU, but no one can blame him for being the number one player taken in the draft.

He was a helluva Tiger and I'm glad I got to see him wear the Purple & Gold.

Posted by TheEdge
Member since Apr 2007
9703 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:46 pm to
A comparison of JR's Sr. year stats against other prominent QB's Sr. year stats.

JR

67.8% 3129 yds 9.1 ypa 28/8 Td/Int 167.03 RAT

Leinart- Jarrett, Bush, Steve Smith, Fred Davis on O. Easier schedule.

65.7% 3815 yds 8.9 ypa 28/8 Td/Int 157.75 RAT

Matt Ryan- Much easier schedule.

61.5% 2939 yds 6.9 ypa 15/10 Tds/Int 126.39 RAT

Alex Smith- MWC LAWL

67.5% 2952 yds 9.3 ypa 32/4 Tds/Int 176.52 RAT

VY- Easier schedule very good talent around him.

65.2% 2026 yds 9.3 ypa 26/10 Tds/Int 163.95 RAT
Posted by LSU Diablo
Dallas, TX
Member since Apr 2007
206 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:47 pm to
OK, how about comparing their stats against the three, four, or five best defenses that they faced all year in 2001 and 2006, respecyively? I am not enough of a stats person to dig that up myself. Any possible way I can trouble you to dig it up for me??
This post was edited on 8/16/08 at 12:49 pm
Posted by Suntiger
STG or BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
35784 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:49 pm to
Edge, what were his rushing stats? His running, effective but not awesome, was what won the game against Tenn. and he started running after that and that really helped open up the offense after that.
Posted by LSU Diablo
Dallas, TX
Member since Apr 2007
206 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

Also, anybody who doesn't think JaMarcus Russell was the greatest QB in LSU history is a moron.


I just don't agree. Most talented? Overwhelmingly yes. Best ever? I think that we would have needed to have him play his senior year to know for sure. Just my opinion.....
Posted by ATLTiger
#TreyBiletnikoffs
Member since Sep 2003
46242 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

OK, how about comparing their stats against the three, four, or five best defenses that they faced all year in 2001 and 2006, respecyively?


It'd probably be a bit of a wash. Ro didn't fare well against UT either time, UF, or AU. He did light Bama up in a way I didn't think possible. I'm not sure those were exactly the best defenses he played, but I'm willing to bet they were (maube Arky gets swapped out with AU).
Posted by TheEdge
Member since Apr 2007
9703 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

Edge, what were his rushing stats?


Its a bit hard to say because of the way sacks are counted.

HE finished the season with 142 yds on the ground and one TD.

Against Tenn in particular he rushed for 71 yds on 7 attempts. Thats 10.14 ypa.

LINK

Stats are all there.
Posted by StaffordNation
Duluth, GA
Member since Aug 2008
57 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:55 pm to
I think he's going to prove to be the latest of stretches and busts that the Raiders have to suffer. Powerful arm, but that means dick when you don't have it upstairs.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60877 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

Others seem to zero in on every miscue that he had during his tenure at LSU, holding him accountable for things that you conveniently ignore about our other QB's past and present.



This is what pisses me off, along with giving QB's credit for team accomplishments.
Posted by ATLTiger
#TreyBiletnikoffs
Member since Sep 2003
46242 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

Powerful arm, but that means dick when you don't have it upstairs.


quote:

StaffordNation
Posted by TheEdge
Member since Apr 2007
9703 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:57 pm to
quote:


I think he's going to prove to be the latest of stretches and busts that the Raiders have to suffer. Powerful arm, but that means dick when you don't have it upstairs.


Which is why his stats are on par with other great college QBs?
Posted by LSU Diablo
Dallas, TX
Member since Apr 2007
206 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:57 pm to
He'll be better than Matt Stafford is, college or pro. Talk about busts. Jeez.....
Posted by TheEdge
Member since Apr 2007
9703 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:57 pm to
quote:


This is what pisses me off, along with giving QB's credit for team accomplishments.


Trent Dilfer>Dan Marino!
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468089 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

That being said, he never had much opportunity to develop touch or acuracy and that was never his strong points.

that's why he passed for nearly 70% in 2006, and passed for more than 60% in 2005, right? no accuracy

quote:

Another year would have likely made him a legendary player for LSU

why? he IS legendary
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468089 posts
Posted on 8/16/08 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

how about comparing their stats against the three, four, or five best defenses that they faced all year in 2001 and 2006, respecyively?

oh you mean like Auburn, where our RBs ran for less than 2 ypc?

or UF, when bowe caused 2 interceptions and our center didn't snap the ball to JR on the goaline?
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