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Rafa legacy
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:43 pm
Say he wins one more French open. Is he better than Federer all-time? He has the head to head but I can see an argument for so many of his titles being on clay.
Eta: instead of downvoting leave a comment.
Eta: instead of downvoting leave a comment.
This post was edited on 10/11/20 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:49 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Say he wins one more French open. Is he better than Federer all-time? He has the head to head but I can see an argument for so many of his titles being on clay.
If he wins one more than Roger, then he has the best argument for greatest of all-time. He still has that H2H advantage against Roger too (although Fed has shrunk down the difference).
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:49 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
I'm a huge fedtard, but it looks like he's going to get passed on the GOAT list in the next few years. I kind of hope Rafa hits 24, so there is no argument. If they all sit at 20-22, then it's take your pick. I think Rafa finishes at 22, then Roger and Novak at 20.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 9:20 am
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:50 pm to pelicansfan123
I agree with you. Just curious the general consensus.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 10:57 pm to Bunk Moreland
Rafa would need some things to go right to win anywhere but Roland Garos in my opinion at his age. He has been so dominating there and I do think he would be favored to win 1 or 2 more at the french though.
Posted on 10/11/20 at 11:04 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
I think the floor is 21.
If he wins another French and picks off an Australian or another grand slam I don’t see how he isn’t known as the GOAT.
The media clearly backs Fed so it will be an uphill battle there but shite.
If he wins another French and picks off an Australian or another grand slam I don’t see how he isn’t known as the GOAT.
The media clearly backs Fed so it will be an uphill battle there but shite.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 4:49 am to ClemsonRules
He owns the head to head and has beaten him in finals on 3 different surfaces. At this point the debate will be between Rafa and Novak moving forward. Federer for all his dominance got a lot of his before these two really took off. Novak can at least say he's beaten Rafa at the French.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 5:44 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Rafa would need some things to go right to win anywhere but Roland Garos in my opinion at his age. He has been so dominating there and I do think he would be favored to win 1 or 2 more at the french though.
Did you miss the last US Open he played?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 8:31 am to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Rafa would need some things to go right to win anywhere but Roland Garos in my opinion at his age
I think Rafa *probably* won't win another non-RG slam, but let's not forget that he won the US Open in 2019, and in pretty convincing fashion until the final, which was a very close -- and great -- match.
He could definitely steal one more aussie or another US Open. I think it's unlikely that he gets another Wimby.
On the RG front, I think one more is more likely than two more. There is certainly a decent chance he gets another in 2021 considering it is like focking 7 months away and how dominant he was this year at RG.
Seriously, he was ridiculously dominant at this tournament this year. I may go through and do the game differential analysis. This is probably his third most dominant RG ever, which at age 34 is insane.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:13 am to MidnightVibe
So with the disclaimer that I'm a giant rafa homer. Here is my main argument for Rafa being the GOAT. I overlayed all three career GS results from Wikipedia. Rafa played and won GS during both of the other two peaks, while Roger and Novak either didn't have to compete with the others prime or just didn't get results in that player's prime.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:25 am to barry
quote:
while Roger and Novak either didn't have to compete with the others prime or just didn't get results in that player's prime
I'm also a Rafa homer (but everybody knew that), but I would say your argument is partially right. Roger definitely scavenged his first several without prime Rafa or Novak to deal with.
But Novak is only a year younger than Rafa.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:29 am to barry
In teresting, their periods of heavy winning didn't overlap as much as I thought
Federer won a lot, then has won 4 since 2011
Novak started winning in 2011
Nadal wins Frenches all the way through and picks up what the other dominant guy doesn't for the others.
If Nadal was 3 years younger Federer would have had back to back grand slams
Federer won a lot, then has won 4 since 2011
Novak started winning in 2011
Nadal wins Frenches all the way through and picks up what the other dominant guy doesn't for the others.
If Nadal was 3 years younger Federer would have had back to back grand slams
Posted on 10/12/20 at 9:42 am to MidnightVibe
quote:
But Novak is only a year younger than Rafa.
yea, but Novak wasn't ready to win GS at the time, he didn't reach his peak like rafa did, granted rafa was a prodigy.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:00 am to barry
Imo that overlay strengthens the argument for Federer. He was dominant on 3 surfaces with only the French being his Achilles because Rafa is so good there.
Federer
6 Aussie
1 French
8 Wimbeldon
5 US
Rafa
1 Aussie
13 French
2 Wimbeldon
4 US
Djokovic
8 Aussie
1 French
5 Wimbledon
3 US
Rafa is great but without the French would we really be talking about him as the goat? Imo the best all time should be able to be somewhat dominate on all surfaces. Rafa clearly isn't. In the end I think it ends
Federer
Djokovic
Rafa
Federer
6 Aussie
1 French
8 Wimbeldon
5 US
Rafa
1 Aussie
13 French
2 Wimbeldon
4 US
Djokovic
8 Aussie
1 French
5 Wimbledon
3 US
Rafa is great but without the French would we really be talking about him as the goat? Imo the best all time should be able to be somewhat dominate on all surfaces. Rafa clearly isn't. In the end I think it ends
Federer
Djokovic
Rafa
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:03 am to lsufanva
quote:
He was dominant on 3 surfaces with only the French being his Achilles because Rafa is so good there.
Bruh. US and AU are both hardcourts
Also Rafa is the only player in tennis history to have multiple GS on all three surfaces
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 10:04 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:36 am to barry
That’s kind of a weird cherry picked stat.
Fed is being penalized for being the 2nd greatest clay court player in his era, while Rafa gets the benefit of the doubt for not being the 2nd greatest grass/hard court tennis player of his era. The H2H record would look a lot different if the matches on playing surfaces were flipped.
Fed is being penalized for being the 2nd greatest clay court player in his era, while Rafa gets the benefit of the doubt for not being the 2nd greatest grass/hard court tennis player of his era. The H2H record would look a lot different if the matches on playing surfaces were flipped.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:36 am to Palm Beach Tiger
I still put the crown on Fed but I'm not going to argue with anyone who picks one of the other two.
For me, Fed was just slightly the more complete player. He didn't have any weaknesses. He could adjust his mental focus and style of play to excel under any circumstances, regardless of the surface, his opponent or his age/physical condition. The fact that he has a chance to win 400 Grand Slam matches (when 150 is probably the standard for greatness) is a testament to that.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:47 am to barry
I’ll put it like this as far as overall ranking....
Rafa puts everything into every single shot every match. The physical toll his body has taken over the years and to end up being involved in this discussion is astonishing...
Fed just makes things look so easy the way he plays. Doesn’t get to emotional during matches and just glides around the court making shot after shot.
Novak is just a physical freak that can make shots and recover from bad shots like nobody I have ever seen. But his temper and emotions are his setbacks. I give him credit yesterday for at least fighting in the third set when he knew he was no match for Rafa yesterday......
Having said this I’m going
Fed
Rafa
Novak....
Rafa puts everything into every single shot every match. The physical toll his body has taken over the years and to end up being involved in this discussion is astonishing...
Fed just makes things look so easy the way he plays. Doesn’t get to emotional during matches and just glides around the court making shot after shot.
Novak is just a physical freak that can make shots and recover from bad shots like nobody I have ever seen. But his temper and emotions are his setbacks. I give him credit yesterday for at least fighting in the third set when he knew he was no match for Rafa yesterday......
Having said this I’m going
Fed
Rafa
Novak....
Posted on 10/12/20 at 10:48 am to barry
Doesn't change the fact that Rafa has won almost double on 1 surface compared to the others. He's great and I have no argument with anyone that says hes the goat but in these discussions all mentioned are great so you look for differences. The difference is without the French Rafa isn't even in the discussion. Fed and Novak would be. They are more complete players. It's akin to saying Nolan Ryan is the best pitcher of all time because he has more no hitters and strikeouts than everyone else. Yet that isn't the case. He's not even mentioned with the best of all time. Rafa obviously is more balanced than that but you get the point.
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