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re: I’d like to be armed with facts against Bernie.

Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:15 am to
Posted by Oddibe
Close to some, further from others
Member since Sep 2015
6568 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:15 am to
quote:

What specific socialist policies is Bernie proposing and why are they bad?
Medicare for all. Just image the atrocious VA medical system, except its for everyone.
Posted by Strannix
District 11
Member since Dec 2012
49087 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:15 am to
quote:

What specifically is Bernie Sanders proposing and why is it impossible to fund?


Medicare for illegal immigrants

It is impossible to fund the CURRENT entitlement spending we already have at a theoretical 100% tax rate. Goddamn people we are printing trillions of dollars, there will be a reckoning one day, does anyone even keep up with this shite????
Posted by fallguy_1978
Best States #50
Member since Feb 2018
48913 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:18 am to
The Green New Deal would cost 91 trillion over 10 years. The problem is that we only take in $3-4 trillion per year
Posted by cajuncarguy
On the road...Again!
Member since Jun 2013
3135 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:18 am to
Here is a good article bu the Federalist. Capitalism vs. Socialism Brilliantly Explained For Dummies

LINK

Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
116328 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:20 am to
I thank you for that but I’m well versed in that sort of thing.

I’m really looking for some Bernie specific things. His actually policy proposals, how much they will cost, why they won’t work, how they will effect the nation, etc.

There’s been some good info so far.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
99327 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:20 am to
He's for:

Confisactory tax rates
Open borders
Full social benefits to illegals
Nationalizing of industries
Destruction of US energy sector and auto industry (Green New Deal)
Socialized medicine (through Medicare for all)
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 11:23 am
Posted by Veritas
Raleigh, NC
Member since Feb 2005
6376 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:21 am to
Are you trying to say that he does not support nationalizing those sectors?
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
16808 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:21 am to
Here’s what you need to know. Free stuff (college, health care, universal income) require substantially higher taxes.

Higher taxes causes wealth to flee. Companies, jobs, and etc begin net outflow to places like China.

If the wealth and jobs leave, government revenue decreases and the gov can no longer keep its promises of free stuff to a populace that has become increasingly dependent upon it.

The next steps are usually government collapse or government seizing control of sectors of the economy to seize wealth and prevent outflow. They will justify it “because people will die if we don’t do it”.

Now you’re Venezuela.

The reason socialism and communism will never work, is because the governments source of revenue will evolve and eventually dry up through economic cycles.

If the government is only in charge of things like defense, then a lack of gov revenue won’t result in people starving.

The only way socialism might be sustainable is if you keep your population captive and prevent any people or business from leaving, and forced them to give you half their profit. Captivity is not consistent with our constitution.

This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 11:30 am
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
116328 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:21 am to
quote:

The Green New Deal would cost 91 trillion over 10 years. The problem is that we only take in $3-4 trillion per year


This is the type of thing I’m looking for. Thanks.

I also know he wants to end the export of domestic oil which is stupid as frick.
Posted by Canada_Baw
Member since Dec 2017
2044 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:21 am to
In a macro sense, Bernie believes that government control of goods and services will create an equity amongst the classes.

From a micro perspective, the deadweight loss government imposes on a market will cause the supply and demand to diverge.

In other words, he will take everyone’s money and promise to make your life better. (Healthcare 25 trillion, no fracking, housing adjustment and rent control)
He will fail, government controlled economies shrink and don’t grow. 401k will go into decline and the middle class will be trampled upon until there is only oligarchs and poors waiting for bread.

Then he will be the pariah that gets eaten and a dictator will take control to fix everything.

Those that Promote socialism/communism are the first ones marched out to a brick wall for 127 grains to push them into oblivion.
Posted by lsunatchamp
Member since Feb 2009
2025 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:21 am to
Liberals always argue the moral value of things, so the only way to "win" is to make the moral argument in your favor. Bernie Sanders essentially wants to steal money (take money against someones will) from the rich and redistribute it to the poor. Well, that is morally corrupt because stealing is wrong.

It's like if there are three people in the room, one has a hundred dollar bill and the other two have zero. They have a vote to split up the $100 equally. The poors win 2-1, so everyone now has $33.33. It's stealing, just cause the majority votes for it doesn't make it morally right.
Posted by Parmen
Member since Apr 2016
18317 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:22 am to
quote:

Help me out. Give me some ammunition.


Here's a good source for information about Bernie.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 11:23 am
Posted by Bear Is Dead
Monroe
Member since Nov 2007
4696 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:22 am to
One of the biggest problems with both Bernie and Warren’s plans is that the powers that be will never allow their platforms to come to fruition.

Bernie always mentions the powerful drug companies and Wall Street like he’s going to bring them down, which is a joke. The super wealthy are immensely powerful in the sense that they basically own a majority of Congress already. Imagine what they will spend if there is a proposed wealth tax costing them billions of dollars...

None of these wild ideas will ever happen. Bernie hasn’t ever had a significant legislative achievement in over 30 years as a senator. What makes you think he will accomplish anything as president?

I’m full MAGA and I think the president has this in the bag, but I’m really not worried if he loses to Bernie, because nothing will change other than increases in ordinary income tax rates.
Posted by Skeezer
Member since Apr 2017
2296 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:22 am to
Just read an economics text book. That’s about all you need
Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
21322 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:22 am to
quote:

One point: While the single-payer system outlined in the pending legislative proposals would increase public spending — and by a significant amount — its backers say that total health care spending likely wouldn’t change that much. That’s because, as the plan is envisioned, while government spending would go up, private health expenditures would disappear.
“Medicare for All would dramatically shift how we pay for health care, but not necessarily how much we spend in total,” said Larry Levitt, a vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation. “It’s hard to make the case that it would bankrupt the country.” (Kaiser Health News is an editorially independent program of the foundation.)
Furthermore, to suggest that providing undocumented immigrants with insurance would bankrupt the country is misleading. Those immigrants make up a small number of the population — about 11 million, compared with the total national population of approximately 327 million.

Posted by Brosef Stalin
Member since Dec 2011
39309 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:25 am to
Bernie supports Fidel Castro and Nicholas Maduro. He thinks bread lines are a good thing. He once got kicked out of a commune for being lazy. He never earned a paycheck until he was 40. He's never worked a non government job.
Posted by Lobo Apple Sauce
Member since Sep 2014
388 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:26 am to
I'm not a Democrat, so can't vote for any of these people. But, Handwriting Exemplars say it all, according to my professional training.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
99327 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:26 am to
quote:

Furthermore, to suggest that providing undocumented immigrants with insurance would bankrupt the country is misleading. Those immigrants make up a small number of the population — about 11 million, compared with the total national population of approximately 327 million


Everyone knows that 11 million number is bullshite and it's closer to 30 million (it's counterintuitive that the number could be a static 11 million for over 20 years).

Also, the geniuses that proposed Medicare in 1965 estimated it would cost $12 billion by 1990. They were off by almost $100 billion.
Posted by Pacito
Member since Jan 2013
1222 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:26 am to
Facts do not matter to his followers. They live on emotion and the dream of "Free Education and "Free Health Care." They are not logical thinkers. If they were, they would realize the Government has ZERO money of their own. Every penny they have comes from the taxpayer. Yuri Bezmenov said it best: " you can show them 10 pages of facts, and they still wouldn't believe you. That is how effective the propaganda is."
Posted by Kraut Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
4514 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:28 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/9/21 at 11:04 am
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