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re: Boy Scouts file for bankruptcy due to sex-abuse lawsuits
Posted on 2/18/20 at 9:29 am to southernelite
Posted on 2/18/20 at 9:29 am to southernelite
I made it to Philmont and a world jamboree. Some of the best days of my life were in scouting. Later became a leader with Cub scouts for my son. I hope something good can come out of this.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 9:59 am to Nigel Farage
quote:Helluva good point.
The Catholic Church had a couple hundred year head start on the molesting of young boys.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 10:04 am to Trevaylin
quote:90% of the current abuse claims occurred 30 or more years ago, when gays were prohibited, so that argument doesn't hold water. Moreover, the notion that gay leaders are permitted in scouting is not exactly true. Each scout unit is "chartered" by a civic organization, meaning that they operate as an arm of that organization. BSA policy allows the individual units to adopt the leadership standards of their chartered organization. If they are chartered by a church that has a sincerely held religious objection to homosexuality, then they may rightfully exclude homosexual leaders. They can also exclude divorcees, adults without children involved in the program, drunkards, long hairs, etc., if they want. If they are sponsored by the Presbyterians or Episcopalians, who apparently are all in on the homo love fest, then they can have gay leaders. Here's the best part - just like in America, if you don't want your kid in a scout unit with gays, don't sign them up to be a part of a unit that permits it. It's as simple as changing the channel on the TV.
forcing the scouts to accept gay leaders is putting the wrong fox in the hen house
If you read the reports in the vast majority of the cases the BSA did everything they could have to prevent the bad stuff from happening. That's not to say, however, that there aren't some really horrendous cases where more should have been done. The BSA's current Youth Protection Training program is one of the best in the nation. In fact, it's used a model by other organizations and the BSA shares it freely with anyone who would like to use it.
This is a problem that has been an issue for nearly every organization that works with youth: churches, YMCA, boys and girls clubs, etc. Hell, y'all've seen teachers, sheriff's deputies, and LSP officers arrested for it in Louisiana in the past few months. That's no excuse or justification for what has happened in the past with the BSA, but is offered to say that the BSA isn't alone in all of this. It's a larger societal problem. 20% of American males and 33% of American females report being the victim of some form of abuse prior to the age of 18.
The chapter 11 filing has several purposes:
1. It allows the BSA to create a trust fund to compensate victims and pay for counselling (something, btw, the BSA has been doing for some time now).
2. It forces the lawyers to ante up on their cases, creating a deadline to file a claim so that the BSA isn't dragged into court indefinitely by lawyers who bribe enough state legislatures to get the statutes of limitations changed repetitively.
3. It protects the very few assets owned by the BSA, namely the Philmont Scout Ranch, the Summit Bechtel Reserve, Northern Tier, and Sea Base. Over the past year, BSA took out mortgages on all of those properties to fund the trust described in point 1. Those mortgages also served to protect the properties from confiscation as a result of the lawsuits.
quote:They weren't forced. The girls asked for it. Most of them are siblings of boys who were involved. The Girl Scouts are more of a homemakers club. There was a move for a long time to get them to change into a more outdoors oriented organization, but they refused.
forcing the Boy Scouts to accept girls
quote:The 14+yo programs in BSA, e.g. Venturing, Exploring, & Sea Scouting, have been co-ed since the early 1970s. They haven't turned into "horny teenager clubs," yet, so I think we're good on that front. Never fails to amaze that outsiders are so focused on the sexual habits of children, though.
making it a mixed sex horny teenager club environment encourages more sex abuse complaints.
quote:100% agree, but those who truly were hurt deserve help and compensation.
what is the greater good. a boys club that teaches values or settlements where lawyers are the chief benefactor
Finally, why is that so many people are completely concerned about scouting when something like this comes out but they never show up to help, join with their kids, or lift a finger of concern about it at any other time?
This post was edited on 2/18/20 at 10:06 am
Posted on 2/18/20 at 10:08 am to SOSFAN
quote:
There are plenty of other reasons to bash gay's but to blame them being allowed to be scout leaders as the reason shows a lack of knowledge on the situation. 99% of the claims are before the gays were allowed in plus just a tiny bit of research will tell you that the majority of child molesters are heterosexual. The blame for this falls directly on messed up hetro's.
This. The rape charges aren't against openly gay Scout leaders. It's a bunch of closeted "heteros" and married men. The new gay leaders are under a microscope from the get-go. While people are worrying about them, the married neighbor is up to no good.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 10:25 am to lsuwontonwrap
I personally don’t like having gays as scout leaders, but they are not the problem in this situation. A little research will show that most of the scout leaders involved in the abuse were usually married with families which is very common for pedophiles.
This post was edited on 2/18/20 at 10:33 am
Posted on 2/18/20 at 10:35 am to lsuwontonwrap
My Dad encouraged me to drop out of cub scouts waaaaay back in the day only 2 weeks into scouting. He knew! I thank him now, RIP Dad.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 11:13 am to Tunasntigers92
I was an altar boy for 6 years and not once was anything inappropriately said, inferred, or even physically attempted by our priests in our part of the parish. They were straight up, no pun intended.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 11:15 am to Havoc
quote:
Queers love little boys.
Didn't Levi STrauss end funding to BSoA because they wouldn't hire gay scout masters.
Looks like they did anyway.
And frick Levis STrauss.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 11:28 am to Havoc
The reality is, that 40-60 years ago, the molestation of boys was more common than we want to admit. It wasn't just the scouts or the church. It was in athletic locker rooms. It was in schools. It was at swimming pools.
I think a lot of the responsible adults, be it parents or organizational leaders, just didn't want to admit it was true. To this day, I know older Catholics who refuse to believe a priest would molest anyone, and who never would confront a church official over it.
Mental health research and polices at those times thought this was something that could be cured, was a passing thing, etc. So, if they just moved a scout leader from one troop to another, then it would go away, and no one would have to confront it.
For those of you who think letting in gays or girls is causing the problems... you do realize that the vast majority of these cases are over 30 years old? In 20-30 years, we can discuss what impact gays and girls have on the organization. Further, the American organization was one of the last in the world to take these steps.
I'm an Eagle Scout. I have many friends and professional associates who are also. I have many friends who have their sons (and now, daughters) in the program. I have many friends who serve as pack and troop leaders, as trainers, etc. They are the ones who are getting hurt today, by not only having their reputation trashed, but having to pay higher fees for registration and insurance, to cover all these payouts.
BSA has been attacked from both sides of the political divide. The left attacks it because they don't feel BSA is inclusive enough. The right attacks it because they feel BSA is pandering too much.
And as far as the Mormons, their leaving was a purely financial decision. They realized they can start their own organization for a lot cheaper, and not have to pay for all these settlements.
My daughters both tried girl scouts, that is a disaster of an organization if I ever saw one. I would like for them to join Scouting BSA, but the both have enough activities in their lives.
The timeless values of BSA, personal responsibility, good citizenship, preparedness, teamwork, loyalty, are still taught today.
I think a lot of the responsible adults, be it parents or organizational leaders, just didn't want to admit it was true. To this day, I know older Catholics who refuse to believe a priest would molest anyone, and who never would confront a church official over it.
Mental health research and polices at those times thought this was something that could be cured, was a passing thing, etc. So, if they just moved a scout leader from one troop to another, then it would go away, and no one would have to confront it.
For those of you who think letting in gays or girls is causing the problems... you do realize that the vast majority of these cases are over 30 years old? In 20-30 years, we can discuss what impact gays and girls have on the organization. Further, the American organization was one of the last in the world to take these steps.
I'm an Eagle Scout. I have many friends and professional associates who are also. I have many friends who have their sons (and now, daughters) in the program. I have many friends who serve as pack and troop leaders, as trainers, etc. They are the ones who are getting hurt today, by not only having their reputation trashed, but having to pay higher fees for registration and insurance, to cover all these payouts.
BSA has been attacked from both sides of the political divide. The left attacks it because they don't feel BSA is inclusive enough. The right attacks it because they feel BSA is pandering too much.
And as far as the Mormons, their leaving was a purely financial decision. They realized they can start their own organization for a lot cheaper, and not have to pay for all these settlements.
My daughters both tried girl scouts, that is a disaster of an organization if I ever saw one. I would like for them to join Scouting BSA, but the both have enough activities in their lives.
The timeless values of BSA, personal responsibility, good citizenship, preparedness, teamwork, loyalty, are still taught today.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 11:57 am to Havoc
Equating homosexuality and child molestation is so fricking ignorant... Not surprised at ALL to see that take on this forum though. BAWS gonna BAW
Posted on 2/18/20 at 12:35 pm to Kafka
Openly gay scout leaders aren't the problem. It's all those "heterosexuals" that hide their real truth and satiate by touching little boys.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 12:45 pm to jscrims
Very true
Our troop is special and full of outstanding people. We've been a charter group with one of the first stand-alone girl troops and its going very well. Those young ladies are quality human beings.
I'm hopeful for Scouts BSA, but this leaves a massive scar.
Our troop is special and full of outstanding people. We've been a charter group with one of the first stand-alone girl troops and its going very well. Those young ladies are quality human beings.
I'm hopeful for Scouts BSA, but this leaves a massive scar.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 12:49 pm to HarryBalzack
Great points Harry.
But in this time and age, people would rather scrap factual information for the fun of ridicule.
But in this time and age, people would rather scrap factual information for the fun of ridicule.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 1:01 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
That’s what happens when you let heathens in
You dumbass. You don't think this shite has been going on form several decades?
Oh, and the Catholic Church wants you to hold its beer.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 2:23 pm to LSUFanHouston
All of this, except that the BSA did keep files on people suspected or accused of molestation and they did attempt to disassociate them, not move them to other units (scoutmasters & cubmasters don't get paid, btw). But this was before the computer age; BSA was slow to computerize their records; and this was prior to the LEOs cooperating with background checks.
If you read the "perversion files," the list and records of disqualified adults that the LA Times iblished after an earlier lawsuit, you'll see the perverts attempting to join and getting refused repeatedly. Only thing is that it took time to mail the file and then do manual checks, so some were able to participate for short periods. Personally, after reading some of the files I just don't see how the dudes got away with it...how the kids didn't scream bloody murder and why they didn't all quit the troop.
It's a damn shite sandwich, for sure. The whole affair begs the question of how far and to what end should this go? Sovereign immunity is the only thing stopping them from going after CPS and Youth Services, but look for lawyers to go after a waiver on that too soon.
If you read the "perversion files," the list and records of disqualified adults that the LA Times iblished after an earlier lawsuit, you'll see the perverts attempting to join and getting refused repeatedly. Only thing is that it took time to mail the file and then do manual checks, so some were able to participate for short periods. Personally, after reading some of the files I just don't see how the dudes got away with it...how the kids didn't scream bloody murder and why they didn't all quit the troop.
It's a damn shite sandwich, for sure. The whole affair begs the question of how far and to what end should this go? Sovereign immunity is the only thing stopping them from going after CPS and Youth Services, but look for lawyers to go after a waiver on that too soon.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 3:25 pm to HarryBalzack
quote:
HarryBalzack
Excellent writeup
Posted on 2/18/20 at 4:42 pm to Athos
quote:
Scout training isn’t going to help you find clean water and food sources after a massive hurricane like Katrina decimates entire swaths of land. I sure as frick don’t remember getting disaster training or my two Eagle Scout brothers either. Make a fire? Sure.
And hate to tell you, but the populations hit the hardest by Katrina aren’t going to be the ones with access to Boy Scouts either. Sorry, but my experience with Scouts is that you need a certain level of money for it. The Scouts were always pretty white for me.
Last time I checked, Emergency Preparedness and Wilderness Survival were both required merit badges to make the rank of Eagle Scout. Sorry you didn't pay attention.
Posted on 2/18/20 at 4:50 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
You dumbass. You don't think this shite has been going on form several decades?
Oh, and the Catholic Church wants you to hold its beer.
What going on for years? You mean homosexual men being drawn to organizations like the Catholic Church and Boy Scouts where they have authority over and access to young boys so they can sexually abuse them?
Posted on 2/18/20 at 5:03 pm to Athos
quote:
And hate to tell you, but the populations hit the hardest by Katrina aren’t going to be the ones with access to Boy Scouts either. Sorry, but my experience with Scouts is that you need a certain level of money for it. The Scouts were always pretty white for me.
This is no longer true. The Scouts have been trying very hard to start more troops in more urban areas. In fact, they have trouble with adult participation so they actually recruit and pay the adult leaders to go into those places.
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