Lonzo Ball

dude has had 6 pretty solid games


but facts are that is also a small sample size & he still has a long way to go before he's considered a long-term piece

quote:

---

All that being said, i'm glad Lonzo has been playing better, but even when he's playing better, the offense still looks better when NAW is in the game. NAW usually comes flying off the pick, which makes the defense have to actually move and defend. More often than not, Lonzo takes the slow approach when a pick comes. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, b/c CP3 likes to take the slow approach, and it works for him. There's just a huge difference in NAW's ability to make a defense defend him, b/c he can actually get to the rim, and Lonzo.

How many alley oops has Lonzo thrown to Hayes compared to NAW, despite the huge difference in minutes played between the two?

---

You are nuts (or very biased) if you think the offense looks better with NAW in the game. I like his potential, but the offense becomes a bit chaotic at times when he is in. He tried to rush decisions that lead to players not being in proper position or silly mistakes. He tends to force things a bit which is not uncommon for a young player. I think he will get much better. Do we really judge the effectiveness of the offense by how many times NAW throws an alley oop to Hayes? Ball is a much more precise passer and has thrown many alley-oops. I do like NAW's defense and willingness to drive.

Is this a haiku or something?

I don't like the way the offense looks more often than not when Lonzo, and even Jrue are in the game. They have both been better as of late. Both take stupid shots, step back 3's. Lonzo has been miles better at his shot selection the last few games.
Jrue far too often decides i'm not passing the ball and i'll dribble out the last 13 seconds and go one on one. I hate that more often than not.
They just both look like they aren't sure what they should be doing with the ball, so they end up holding it longer than they should, and it messes up the flow of the offense. Move the ball and move yourself. Take the advantages when presented.

Watch Lonzo on most offensive possessions. More often than not, he never crosses the three point line, or even the free throw line extended. His off ball movement is horrendous

NAW is a rookie, of course he's going to make mistakes. He does have a lower turnover rate than Lonzo though.

We have a 112.2 Orating with NAW on the court, compared to 109.3 with him off, for a difference of a +2.9.
We have a 109.2 Orating with Lonzo on the court, which is lower than NAW's, and a 110.5 with him off, for a difference of -1.5.
Offense is obviously better with NAW on the court than Lonzo.
I'm sure Lonzo's numbers look much better the last 8-10 games, and i'm sure NAW's numbers look a lot better if you just look at the games he played 10+ minutes in.

NAW is a +1.5 overall on/off stat.
Lonzo is a -2.0 overall on/off stat.
So even factoring defense in it, we are better with NAW on the court than Lonzo.

quote:

---

NAW needs the game to slow down for him, which is only going to happen with minutes and maturity. He shows a lot of promise.

He still over-penetrates too often, but he is finishing a lot better recently.

---

Agreed. He needs more minutes to learn and I think he will get better with playing time.

quote:

---

We have a 112.2 Orating with NAW on the court, compared to 109.3 with him off, for a difference of a +2.9.
We have a 109.2 Orating with Lonzo on the court, which is lower than NAW's, and a 110.5 with him off, for a difference of -1.5.
Offense is obviously better with NAW on the court than Lonzo.

---

Such a ridiculous statement. NAW's production is in such a limited amount of playing time and some in garbage time. There is no way to draw a conclusion, good or bad< from those stats.

quote:

---

Such a ridiculous statement. NAW's production is in such a limited amount of playing time and some in garbage time. There is no way to draw a conclusion, good or bad< from those stats.

---

Do you recall when i said that in the 29 games NAW has played in, 19 of those he played over 10 minutes and 13 of them he finished with a positive +/-, while the other 10 games where he played under 10 minutes he finished in the negative. His garbage time stats hurt him more than anything.

It's also easy to point out that Lonzo is playing starters more often than not, and NAW is playing backups.

But i agree with your statement, that he hasn't played enough to draw true conclusions. Stats are stats and should be taken with a grain of salt.
I still think he's more the future at the point than Lonzo is.

quote:

---

So imagine if he gets better, like most rookies do, and makes better decisions and ups his shooting efficiency.

---

I'd imagine that's what Lakers fans were saying when Lonzo averaged 10, 7, and 7 on 36% shooting in his rookie year. We always want the young guys to succeed but more likely than not, NAW will be a solid 6-7 man.

And I'm happy you've been watching this team for a decade, but Jrue Holiday is shooting 18% of his shots on pull up 3s this year compared to 19% last year. He's actually shot less step back threes than he did a year ago. The eye test can be misleading when you're biased. We all do it. I'll ignore BI's defensive stats all day because I love his offensive game.

quote:

---

I'd imagine that's what Lakers fans were saying when Lonzo averaged 10, 7, and 7 on 36% shooting in his rookie year.

---

And he is getting better, and i think he's going to continue to get better from now as well. He has to figure out a way to be a threat off the pick. I do'nt care what his 3P% is, him taking a 3 off the dribble off a pick is a bad shot for him, at least at this time. He looks best when it's a catch and shoot 3. Any other 3 looks wonky. He's shown some ability to get to the rim these last few games. THat needs to continue, as well as that floater he showed off a few games ago. He figures out how to be a threat off the pick going to the goal, he can become a really good player.

quote:

---

We always want the young guys to succeed but more likely than not, NAW will be a solid 6-7 man.

---

I think the jury is still out on him, but that's probably right. His biggest problem on both ends of the court right now are simply adjusting to the speed and length of the nba, which i think he will, and his decision making. I have no idea what kind of kid he is, and if his decision making can improve enough to be a solid starter. Some guys just don't have the ability to improve that, some do.

quote:

---

He's actually shot less step back threes than he did a year ago.

---

When that "less" gets to zero, i'll be happy.
Jrue's step back 3 is his worst shot. Not only is it inefficient, but it usually means a long rebound and fast break, and we are one of the worst defensive transition teams in the league.
I don't ever want to see Jrue, Lonzo, NAW, Moore, or anyone else ever take a step back 3.

quote:

---

The eye test can be misleading when you're biased.

---

completely agree, and i didn't want Lonzo from the get go, and i likely am a bit biased. I have tried to make a point to say when he's done well and to point out specifics in how i think he can become a good player time and time again though.

I think that's a fair response. I agree with you that the step back 3 is a bad shots in most situations btw.