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Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:21 am to xxTIMMYxx
Arrogance.
They are making huge assumptions, that if untrue, have dire consequences for the US.
Let us hope our warplanners are not making the same mistakes.
They are making huge assumptions, that if untrue, have dire consequences for the US.
Let us hope our warplanners are not making the same mistakes.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:51 am to xxTIMMYxx
quote:Technologically we are still pretty far ahead of the Chinese. Our planes are much better. The Chinese have always had problems with aviation engine production but they are certainly closing the gap on that everyday. Their still technology is still pretty far beyond ours as well but at least they have it. Only 3 countries have even attempted to build a stealth aircraft and China is one of them. Their navy is still behind us as well but that gap is closing fast. Very fast. China’s Navy will be America’s equal or better within 15 years.
Can someone layout how the US is so far ahead, or are people just saying this out of arrogance?
China does have a lot of advantages though that offset these technological disadvantages. For one, it’s their home turf. They don’t need to deploy their forces to the other side of the world because presumably the war with China will be a Naval and Air war for the East and South China Seas. For that purpose their large fleet of diesel electric subs will be more than adequate. Their air defenses are top notch as well. Probably better than ours. We already know their cyber warfare capabilities are top notch as well. Their long range anti-ship missiles pretty much nullify our carriers. I’m just not sure we’d be willing to risk them by bringing them close enough for their air wings to be effective.
The US Navy just isn’t structured to fight a war against China at this point. Our navy is built around the carrier battle group. Probably half our fleet or more is dedicated solely to protecting the carriers instead of fighting battles with a near peer foe.
IMO the US should forego further construction of super carriers and focus on building submarines and anti-submarine capabilities. I’ll say it again, if aircraft carriers are an absolute necessity then we should be building smaller ones. And more of them. Enough that losing one wouldn’t be a crippling loss. And their mission should be focused on fighting naval battles as opposed to striking targets inland.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:52 am to ExtraSpecial
quote:
It may be a paradox, but quantity < quality when it comes to military.
Not neccesarily.
Quantity has a quality of it's own
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:35 am to GeauxxxTigers23
I like the idea of small hunter-killer teams. If we would halt production of Ford class carriers we could quickly acquire some gowind class corvettes and some soryu class attack subs. We could put quite a few of those together as a team and forwrd deploy them to guam, japan, and maybe even vietnam. We could counter china's naval capabilities with that.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:37 am to upgrayedd
quote:
quantity has a quality all it's own
Best I recall, we defeated germany with quantity, not quality.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:49 am to Hogbit
The US has the most superior military
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:50 am to trinidadtiger
They have a larger Military now because they have 5 times as many people.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:53 am to Hogbit
quote:
Best I recall, we defeated germany with quantity, not quality.
Yep. So did the Russians. There is a balance, though.
Quantity is the best way to defeat modern defense systems. You just overwhelm them with low(ish) cost projectiles.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:53 am to TiketheMiger
quote:several military officials are on record as saying this is true in certain respects. particularly the condition of some of the navy's ships. but you knew that already didn't you
You believe Trump when he says the military was running out of bullets under Obama
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:54 am to xxTIMMYxx
quote:other than what i've already posted?
Can someone layout how the US is so far ahead, or are people just saying this out of arrogance?
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:58 am to Hogbit
quote:i'm getting the impression you shouldn't be criticizing other people's comments.
Aircraft carriers are going to be a huge liability in modern naval combat.
They are not going to help one bit
as i said before, people are taking elements of a military out of context. as long as the carriers have appropriate support, they can be vital to naval warfare. if you leave them out by themselves, of course they're a liability
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:03 am to bfniii
quote:Right now we have at least half of our fleet dedicated to protecting just 10 ships. And the mission of those 10 ships could easily be taken over by more efficient and less expensive means such as surface-to-surface missiles and long range bombers from the Air Force.
as i said before, people are taking elements of a military out of context. as long as the carriers have appropriate support, they can be vital to naval warfare. if you leave them out by themselves, of course they're a liability
Super carriers are a very inefficient way to project power. They’re relics of WWII.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:16 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:by the time china becomes "equal" with the us' current status, the us navy will have advanced in other ways, particularly in the area of lasers. the us just has a significant head start on anything the chinese are trying to do. they are closing the gap but, it might be an asymptotic situation. at that point, the discussion leaves the military arena and delves into the long term sociopolitical/economic conditions of world cultures.
China’s Navy will be America’s equal or better within 15 years
quote:the us would not need to occupy china. all the us needs to do is cripple the technological and leadership infrastructure. not an easy task but the us is absolutely capable of doing that in the military's current state
it’s their home turf
quote:again, there's no doubt their sub force is formidable but, all things together, the us has the advantage. the us has been roaming the pacific for decades longer than they have. the us tracks the movement of every sub they have. the reverse can't be said. not to mention the stealth advantage us subs currently enjoy
For that purpose their large fleet of diesel electric subs will be more than adequate
quote:they are no match for laser warfare. not even close
Their air defenses are top notch as well. Probably better than ours
quote:now this is actually a great point. however, the us isn't standing still in this regard either. the two sides are constantly probing for weaknesses. hard to say who has an advantage here. if both sides were to neutralize the tech of the other, the us would then have an enormous advantage in conventional warfare.
We already know their cyber warfare capabilities are top notch as well
quote:taken out of context, probably. all things considered, no way.
heir long range anti-ship missiles pretty much nullify our carriers
quote:the navy doesn't operate in a vacuum. the other branches are involved and are protecting naval assets. the us military is pretty much exclusively dedicated to the china problem right now.
The US Navy just isn’t structured to fight a war against China at this point
quote:the latter has already been happening however, this is not the direction the us military is going. space warfare, cyber warfare, laser warfare, stealth warfare are the next gen goals for the us military. these things make conventional chinese weapons pretty much useless.
the US should forego further construction of super carriers and focus on building submarines and anti-submarine capabilities
again, the economies of the two countries are so intertwined it's hard to imagine outright conflict. not to mention the deterrent of m.a.d.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:18 am to bfniii
quote:
quantity is the best way to defeat modern defense systems.
quote:
as long as the carriers have appropriate support
You are mistaken. We put a carrier in the south china sea during a war with china, we will lose it. It is that simple.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:20 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:you're making my point for me. the carriers aren't just sitting ducks. they have a TON of support. the navy wouldn't be doing that for no reason.
Right now we have at least half of our fleet dedicated to protecting just 10 ships
quote:you seem to be suggesting the us doesn't have that ALSO, because they do. besides, this is all current gen warfare. the us is leading the way in next gen warfare. all this talk of carriers, subs, etc is becoming more obsolete by the day.
And the mission of those 10 ships could easily be taken over by more efficient and less expensive means such as surface-to-surface missiles and long range bombers from the Air Force
quote:absolutely not true. there are plenty of military papers on why they're still beneficial
Super carriers are a very inefficient way to project power. They’re relics of WWII
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:23 am to bfniii
Your logic is stuck in the 80's bro.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:23 am to Hogbit
Tell us more about the laser warfare.
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