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re: Pitching staff injuries
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:38 am to BigEdLSU
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:38 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Pitchers of older generations pitched way more with considerably less injuries. I dont know WHY it's happening, but it is.
No one knows why. That’s the million dollar question. Some of the best orthopedic surgeons in the world are studying to figure out why the arm breaks down and what we can do to fix it
Unfortunately as of now we just don’t know.
Some say these injuries aren’t more common now you just didn’t hear about them back then. Guys pitched through them or didn’t make it. There was no coming back before tommy john and a lot of those guys may never have known they tore their UCL.
Some say that it’s modern mechanics. The older generation of arm epidemic was the shoulder. A lot of blown rotator cuffs ended careers. Well modern mechanics fixed most of the shoulder injuries. They emphasized velocity and that put the strain on the elbow. Now UCLs are popping at a record rate but the shoulder is relatively healthy.
No one knows what to do. So the obvious answer for right now is if you pitch you’ll hurt your harm. It’s not if it’s when. Most of the time those injuries hit shortly after high school.
56% of Tommy John surgeries are done on kids under 21 years old. It’s a problem but it’s not a problem unique to LSU
2
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:39 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
It's the constant showcase circuit
Perfect Game is the fricking devil
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:40 am to CottonWasKing
I dont disagree with your last post, but I'm the bad guy for caring. Sorry I dont see the kids as disposable.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:41 am to Lakefront-Tiger
I'm not sure I buy the travel ball excuse for all of this. Is it a problem? Sure. I watched a 12/13 year old kid this past weekend throw 97 pitches in a game at Traction. He was a big physical kid, but still. That will have a cumulative effect.
But, by the same token, if someone like Hill played multiple sports, then maybe LSU needs to look at what they are doing "year round" once the young men get to campus. They go straight into Cape Cod league stuff for the summer, then straight to fall practice, then season prep in January, the season, then back to Cape Cod league.
But, by the same token, if someone like Hill played multiple sports, then maybe LSU needs to look at what they are doing "year round" once the young men get to campus. They go straight into Cape Cod league stuff for the summer, then straight to fall practice, then season prep in January, the season, then back to Cape Cod league.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:41 am to BigEdLSU
Who ITT sees the kids as disposable?
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:42 am to clamdip
quote:All of this is false.
They go straight into Cape Cod league stuff for the summer, then straight to fall practice, then season prep in January, the season, then back to Cape Cod league.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:45 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Sorry I dont see the kids as disposable.
No one sees them as disposable. Billions of dollars are spent on the pitching arm every year and a damn near equal amount is spent researching to solve the problem.
You piss people off when you act like it’s something LSU is doing to hurt the arm. When they are more proactive in attempting to limit injuries than most.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:46 am to ProjectP2294
quote:THis is a good point. My kid during 14U (higher end AAA team) hurt his elbow really only once after he got some good pitching mechanics, and it was on a Friday at one of these showcases, in between practice and a tournament the next day. I regretted letting him go.
It's not just the travel ball. It's the constant showcase circuit too where guys have to show up and throw max effort for every radar gun or they won't get noticed.
These showcases may happen in the middle of a summer season where it messes up the kids routine and has them throwing high intensity sessions off schedule. Or they may happen at a time when the kid should be in shutdown to recover, so they either extend their throwing calendar to accommodate the showcase or they come in without the proper build up. Both of those things are dangerous.
But, unless you are saying they get some long-term damage from this that goes unfixed or undetected, it still doesn't explain why kids show up to college OK and *then* have issues. I'm still thinking the college year-round schedule needs reviewing.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 9:49 am
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:46 am to CottonWasKing
Disagree. I feel like you post to protect lsu reputation.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:48 am to ell_13
quote:In what way? Honest question. When is the "down time" in the yearly calendar for the arms of the players in Div I college?quote:
They go straight into Cape Cod league stuff for the summer, then straight to fall practice, then season prep in January, the season, then back to Cape Cod league.
All of this is false.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:48 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Disagree. I feel like you post to protect lsu reputation.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:49 am to ell_13
quote:
Who ITT sees the kids as disposable?
I personally don't see them as disposable until they're relievers with minor league options and pre-arbitration.
But that's just because I fantasize about being a GM.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:50 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
I feel like you post to protect lsu reputation.
I do because Dunn and Paul don’t deserve to have people accusing them of hurting kids. I watch a lot of baseball. I see what other schools are doing and I see what LSU is doing.
Paul will lose games in order to protect a kid who is borderline ready to go by not pitching them. A lot coaches won’t. A lot of coaches will send their ace out there for 200 pitches and pitch him in relief 3 days later in the tournament. You won’t see Paul do that.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:52 am to clamdip
quote:
In what way? Honest question. When is the "down time" in the yearly calendar for the arms of the players in Div I college?
For LSU specifically, many of the pitchers don't pitch in summer leagues (and that's becoming a trend across the country, one league shut down last year because they didn't have enough pitching). Only Hess, Vietmeier, and Beck pitched last summer.
Also, Cape workloads are usually very low. They only had two pitchers qualify for the ERA title last season, IIRC. To qualify you have to throw something like 2/3 of an inning for every team game played.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:54 am to CottonWasKing
quote:This is true. I don't think people are saying what you think they're saying -- that Paul/Dunn are "hurting kids". Paul is very cautious with arm soreness and so forth.
Paul will lose games in order to protect a kid who is borderline ready to go by not pitching them. A lot coaches won’t. A lot of coaches will send their ace out there for 200 pitches and pitch him in relief 3 days later in the tournament. You won’t see Paul do that.
I think what people are saying, at least me, is that there may be something at the "macro" level with college ball and/or LSU's routine that is exacerbating the problem.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:56 am to ProjectP2294
quote:Cool. Thanks for the info. I didn't know the specifics. But, LSU usually starts fall practice in September. So, assuming they make a deep run to the CWS, that's 3 months of lighter load and 9 months of full on practice, unless I'm missing something.
For LSU specifically, many of the pitchers don't pitch in summer leagues (and that's becoming a trend across the country, one league shut down last year because they didn't have enough pitching). Only Hess, Vietmeier, and Beck pitched last summer.
Also, Cape workloads are usually very low. They only had two pitchers qualify for the ERA title last season, IIRC. To qualify you have to throw something like 2/3 of an inning for every team game played.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:57 am to clamdip
quote:
So, assuming they make a deep run to the CWS, that's 3 months of lighter load and 9 months of full on practice, unless I'm missing something.
They don’t play from September straight through the end of the season either.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:00 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I wish coaches at the college and pro level would speak out more against travel ball.
Never gonna happen, thats where they get their players from.. High School Coaching is gone, principals in Texas have no desire to have a winning athletics dept... its all about test scores now... they dont hire "Baseball" Coaches, they hire math teachers and make them coach baseball... all the knowledgeable coaches are in travel ball.. In my experience its actually the high school coaches that throw them too much... yeah, there are travel ball coaches that throw their kids too much, but not as many as you think. We dont though. Ours throw once a week or every 6 days, with hard limits on pitches to keep their arms in shape and healthy. But what do I know, i only have two pitchers committed to LSU...
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:03 am to TigerFan55555
quote:Looking forward to seeing them sit out a season or two for arm soreness when they get here
i only have two pitchers committed to LSU...
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:03 am to clamdip
quote:
I think what people are saying, at least me, is that there may be something at the "macro" level with college ball and/or LSU's routine that is exacerbating the problem.
You might be saying that but BigEd has consistently blamed injuries on Paul and Dunn
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