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re: Is it wrong to have your photo taken in front of Old Glory or Confederate flag? (long)
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:14 am to jimdog
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:14 am to jimdog
quote:The part that you seem to lose in all of this is that only ONE entity was determined to continue forth on the slavers' path...and that is the one associated with the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Scotland, Britian, "the North" - they all abolished the slave trade and then slavery itself. Sorry you can't see the difference.
Since both parts of America participated in slavery and it began in the north primarily. And died out there first because the north was industry and not fit for rice and indigo growing. And since the idea of slavery began in Britain and France and the granting of large plantations to grow rice, indigo and probably hemp was mostly to sons of wealthy British (and French) is it wrong to wear apparel with the British icon. And fly that flag and the French flag. How about the original slave traders and catchers in the middle east and Africa, some still in business. And what about the Scot, Irish, but mostly England business owners and governments who enslaved and sent the original slaves to America who happened to be white. And the native American tribes who caught and sold native American slaves to rich people.
An argument can be made that the most put upon people in America were the Scots, Irish and British poor who were originally brought here as slaves then some as cannon fodder since many whites in the north wanted no part of fighting the civil war. Or settlement fodder early on with little chance of survival. The poor were put to work in sweat shops and industries in the north even as 9 year olds and many were killed or maimed. And the poor whites in the south who were manipulated into fighting basically 1300 wealthy families fight since they were desperate for a paycheck. And were compelled by the draft to fight against their own best interests. Many of whom were worse off than slaves. Since they had no idea how they were going to eat tomorrow and at least the slaves were being fed and housed and clothed. They were natural farmers and struggled to share crop because of slavery. In the short term the south losing the war was the best thing that ever happened since they now had value as share croppers. Before a slave had value and a poor white had none. The idea was floated at the beginning of the war to use slaves to fight but that was quickly shot down by the rich who owned them in favor of using poor whites. Simply because slaves were highly valued and poor whites had zero value.
Slavery was and is horrible. The worst coming out of people of power. Of all races. And the south is still negatively affected by the aftermath of it and the civil war economically, educationally and socially. And the poor blacks and whites in the south are still paying a price. Read Rick Bragg's "All over but the shoutin'" to see who most people in the south my age lived. The only thing worse than the south losing the civil war for the average white person in the south would have been for the south to have won it. Even with the vindictiveness of the sham called "reconstruction". Which lead to the ultimate hostility between the races as both were put into competition for survival. So when I see a Confederate flag I see a piece of cloth. A symbol of oppressed people, white and black to some sure but no more than the American flag. And I was raised to look at it (Confederate flag) as a symbol of pride. More manipulation. It means nothing to me since we all are Americans, right or wrong. BTW I served under the American flag back in the sixties but was still regularly and sarcastically reminded of "you rebels this and that" by ignorant whites and blacks. Frick 'em both. The black soldiers hung together and so did the southern white soldiers and there was a reason for that.
Also, the majority of the iconography associated with the rebel flag was from the 20th century, when it was explicitly invoked as a symbol of white supremacy and Jim Crow. The famous South Carolina "statehouse" flag didn't even go up until 1961 or so - as an overt middle finger to the civil rights movement.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:36 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The famous South Carolina "statehouse" flag didn't even go up until 1961 or so - as an overt middle finger to the civil rights movemen
True, but sometimes you just have to throw that middle finger up.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:39 am to Tommy Thompson
quote:
Tommy Thompson
Bloody hell, mijo.
Truncate yo shite
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:41 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The famous South Carolina "statehouse" flag didn't even go up until 1961 or so - as an overt middle finger to the civil rights movement.
One of the many reasons Aggy is proud to sponsor tBiennial SC Statehouse Desecration and Hootenanny
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:42 am to jimdog
I grew up reading about the Civil War. As a young person I read about Gettysburg and the other battles and found it all incredibly interesting. I loved reading about Jackson "outsmarting" the Yanks or how Lee struggled with his decision to remain loyal to Virginia. I also enjoyed reading about the heroics of the Maine men at Gettysburg and how Grant, his officers and the Union troops assembled at Appomattox had so much respect and reverence for the southerners.
Not once during that entire time when I was forming my life long opinions of the war did I give more than a seconds thought to the flag.
Not once during that entire time when I was forming my life long opinions of the war did I give more than a seconds thought to the flag.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:46 am to jimdog
quote:
Is it wrong to have your photo taken in front of a Confederate flag?
photo hell. I fly it.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:48 am to geauxbrown
quote:
Not once during that entire time when I was forming my life long opinions of the war did I give more than a seconds thought to the flag.
Doesn't change the fact that the main impetus for the resurgence of the symbol in the south was opposition to the civil rights movement.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:51 am to jimdog
You may not be racist, but anyone flying the Confederate flag these days immediately associates themselves with the small and shrinking crowd of white supremacists. Fair or not that is reality.
And I never understood the whole honor for the American flag and the Confederate flag side by side. It's the equivalent of George Washington flying the British flag and the US flag side by side. "Yep, I know those British killed my friends and countrymen, but Daggum if I don't have a soft spot for British tea! Least we can do is fly both flags next to each other!"
And I never understood the whole honor for the American flag and the Confederate flag side by side. It's the equivalent of George Washington flying the British flag and the US flag side by side. "Yep, I know those British killed my friends and countrymen, but Daggum if I don't have a soft spot for British tea! Least we can do is fly both flags next to each other!"
Posted on 2/4/19 at 11:52 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
I never understood the whole honor for the American flag and the Confederate flag side by side.
That shite is simultaneously sad and hilarious to me.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 12:00 pm to jimdog
quote:
So when I see a Confederate flag I see a piece of cloth. A symbol of oppressed people, white and black to some sure but no more than the American flag. And I was raised to look at it (Confederate flag) as a symbol of pride. More manipulation. It means nothing to me since we all are Americans, right or wrong. BTW I served under the American flag back in the sixties but was still regularly and sarcastically reminded of "you rebels this and that" by ignorant whites and blacks. Frick 'em both. The black soldiers hung together and so did the southern white soldiers and there was a reason for that.
We're not "all Americans". Not anymore. Today, the two Americas of John Edwards' speech exists in its fullness. It's not defined by racial or financial divisions so much as it is by ideological divisions. The divide is a chasm between Christians/Libertarians/Federalists/Patriots on the right and Socialists/Communists/Fascists/State Capitalists/Atheists/Muslims on the left.
As far as the Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia goes, as a Texan it doesn't quite have the same historical meaning for me as does the Lone Star flag or the De Zavala / Republic of Texas / Bonnie Blue flag.
I still respect it as an emblem of self-governance and states rights, however.
This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 2/4/19 at 3:11 pm to oogabooga68
quote:
Sure does, sorta like this: You, BMY are an anti-Semite/racist who has made racist posts on this board, yet here you are on this thread trying to be a moral arbiter on the subject.
In this context, everything you say is null and void because you are a hypocrite
Israel is not our friend and we would be better off if they ceased to exist
Posted on 2/4/19 at 3:25 pm to Tommy Thompson
so basically, you've created another account to hopefully hide behind the fact that you are a gun toting racist who had family die in the civil war, but you aren't out and showy in your F-150... just closeted in your shop.
you were welding the lead trailer for the next KKK rally... weren't you...
you were welding the lead trailer for the next KKK rally... weren't you...
Posted on 2/4/19 at 3:34 pm to TbirdSpur2010
No you are wrong. Poor southern whites died for wealthy English heirs (and some French) because they were manipulated into it. And most modern day folks don't understand that. But the poor people who have been taken advantage of have pride mister. You could even see it in the Army when I served. When they wanted something done it was the kids from the south who stepped up and never complained like the northern boys.
The flag is a symbol of pride and frankly a poor one but it's something something tangible to hang onto. Has zero to do with race, their greats served and they are honoring that. Taken in the context of how southern poor whites have been treated and still are the only folks in America who can be disrespected with impunity it is little enough.
The flag is a symbol of pride and frankly a poor one but it's something something tangible to hang onto. Has zero to do with race, their greats served and they are honoring that. Taken in the context of how southern poor whites have been treated and still are the only folks in America who can be disrespected with impunity it is little enough.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 4:14 pm to Big Scrub TX
I didn't lose sight of anything. You don't get it. Southern poor whites fought for the sons of English elites and French too. Huge plantation owners. Most of the land grants and inheritances began in the late 1600's and were to plant rice and or Indigo. And were passed down generation to generation. Now a few of these plantation owners were sons of wealthy northern leaders of industry. 1387 families basically took the south out of the union. Damn few were southern born white trash. LOL! The same white trash who fought and died for these elites. The same white trash that begat more poor southern whites. Who have born the burden for something they had zero to do with. The flag belongs to the elites. But modern day people have grabbed it as a symbol of pride.
Further Lincoln NEVER invaded the south to end slavery. He invaded to put down the rebellion. Money! There was no income taxes then to run the government. Export taxes on products was a huge source of income and excise taxes on imports. Plus the Confederacy wanted to own the territories and Mexico and South America. And also keep those tax dollars. The 1387 families wanted to enslave, plant and prosper even more and withdrew from the union and formed their own country to beat the north to those territories and yes invade Mexico and expand into S America.
One last thing. Slavery in these United States was alive and well long after it died in Europe. But early European aristocracy fathered American slavery. And sent thousands upon thousands of white slave to America, particularly to the south. And the practice continued a long time. The president who followed Lincoln was a slave as a young man. Yes the president of the United States in the late 1860's was an ex-slave. His mother sold him into slavery for money. Which ws fairly common at the time. He ran away from his master after a time and was hunted by slave catchers. Slavery in the USA lasted almost 200 years. There are few in the south, white or black who doesn't share DNA with an ex slave.
Further Lincoln NEVER invaded the south to end slavery. He invaded to put down the rebellion. Money! There was no income taxes then to run the government. Export taxes on products was a huge source of income and excise taxes on imports. Plus the Confederacy wanted to own the territories and Mexico and South America. And also keep those tax dollars. The 1387 families wanted to enslave, plant and prosper even more and withdrew from the union and formed their own country to beat the north to those territories and yes invade Mexico and expand into S America.
One last thing. Slavery in these United States was alive and well long after it died in Europe. But early European aristocracy fathered American slavery. And sent thousands upon thousands of white slave to America, particularly to the south. And the practice continued a long time. The president who followed Lincoln was a slave as a young man. Yes the president of the United States in the late 1860's was an ex-slave. His mother sold him into slavery for money. Which ws fairly common at the time. He ran away from his master after a time and was hunted by slave catchers. Slavery in the USA lasted almost 200 years. There are few in the south, white or black who doesn't share DNA with an ex slave.
Posted on 2/8/19 at 8:03 am to Bulldogblitz
quote:
so basically, you've created another account to hopefully hide behind the fact that you are a gun toting racist who had family die in the civil war, but you aren't out and showy in your F-150... just closeted in your shop.
you were welding the lead trailer for the next KKK rally... weren't you...
I am in the upper range of the 3% so you are spot-on for the gun toting part .
If I were the racist you say I would have showed the "lady" the business end of the small caliber pistol I keep in a ankle holster when she started cussing me on my property.
You speak of having family that died in civil war like it's a bad thing. I'd rather be able to say that than to say that I have family currently in prison or on welfare but to each their own.
Nope, I do not have a F-150.
Was not welding a trailer at that time but have fabricated from scratch a few utility and motorcycle trailers in my life.
Never been to a KKK rally.
This post was edited on 2/8/19 at 8:06 am
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