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re: For those that honestly believe this is a conspiracy
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:18 am to Mike da Tigah
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:18 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
You don’t understand the motivation behind attracting the 2nd largest television market in the United States, as well as the revenue behind The Rams being a successful franchise?
Sure, but isn’t ensuring the Rams are at home throughout the playoffs the best way to do that? I mean, if the NFL is all in on trying to energize the LA market, wouldn’t it make sense to make sure they were the 1 seed so they’re playing in LA for these big playoff games?
Why not make sure things bounce their way during the season? Or did this idea just hit them during the 4th quarter?
1
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:19 am to UpToPar
Why did the line judge aggressively signal for the other ref not to throw the flag when he reached for it?
I get everything can be missed in real time, but you have to explain this part to me. It's obvious a flag was coming out and the ref stopped it from happening, almost in a threatening manner.
I get everything can be missed in real time, but you have to explain this part to me. It's obvious a flag was coming out and the ref stopped it from happening, almost in a threatening manner.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:20 am to UpToPar
it's impossible to blow that call.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:29 am to Game2620
Collusion is a secret agreement between two or more parties to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage. It is an agreement among firms or individuals to divide a market, set prices, limit production or limit opportunities.[1] It can involve "unions, wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties".[2] In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.[3
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:30 am to UpToPar
You're right, claiming a conspiracy is silly. Think about it, people. If you were going to try to fix a game as a ref, are you really going to wait until inside of 2 minutes left and just pray that you get a chance to ignore a call? If Brees throws somewhere else and completes it for a first down, the refs have no chance to get the result they supposedly wanted. If the defender doesn't commit a flagrant, stupid penalty the refs have no chance to get the result they supposedly wanted.
And if you're rigging a game, are you really going to do it at such a critical time that draws everyone's attention? Of course, not. If the refs want to influence a game, they'll do it with several well-timed, subtle calls throughout the course of the game. This both ensures that the refs would be able to have an impact on the game as well as makes it significantly less obvious, because a couple 2nd quarter holding calls don't draw nearly as much scrutiny as a 4th quarter pass interference.
There was no grand conspiracy to screw us, it was just 7 pussy-assed officials all scared to be the guy that makes a call that determines such a huge game, each hoping that one of the others would be the one to pull out the flag. They choked.
And if you're rigging a game, are you really going to do it at such a critical time that draws everyone's attention? Of course, not. If the refs want to influence a game, they'll do it with several well-timed, subtle calls throughout the course of the game. This both ensures that the refs would be able to have an impact on the game as well as makes it significantly less obvious, because a couple 2nd quarter holding calls don't draw nearly as much scrutiny as a 4th quarter pass interference.
There was no grand conspiracy to screw us, it was just 7 pussy-assed officials all scared to be the guy that makes a call that determines such a huge game, each hoping that one of the others would be the one to pull out the flag. They choked.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:32 am to TallMan
See my post above
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:35 am to musick
quote:
Why did the line judge aggressively signal for the other ref not to throw the flag when he reached for it?
He didn't. He was signaling to Payton who was running up to the other official.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:36 am to UpToPar
It’s no conspiracy. It’s simply the worse no call in sports history.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:37 am to WhoDatNC
Agreed.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:39 am to TallMan
quote:
And if you're rigging a game, are you really going to do it at such a critical time that draws everyone's attention? Of course, not. If the refs want to influence a game, they'll do it with several well-timed, subtle calls throughout the course of the game. This both ensures that the refs would be able to have an impact on the game as well as makes it significantly less obvious, because a couple 2nd quarter holding calls don't draw nearly as much scrutiny as a 4th quarter pass interference.
Exactly.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:43 am to UpToPar
There are THREE remedies on field to prevent something so obvious from happening in that stage of the game/season:
1. One of the many refs could have thrown a flag
2. The refs could have met on the field and discussed and thrown a late flag
3. The head offices could have called in and informed the crew of the missed call leading to a field conference and a late flag.
Instead, we had total silence. Silence from EVERY ref, no discussion, silence from the LEAGUE even with obvious video evidence. NO conferring AT ALL. That leads to the next point.
There is no question of the INTENTIONALITY of the blown no-call. That’s a done deal and a fact.
The question is WHY the refs were intentionally ignoring the PI/targeting. There are four reasons:
1. They wanted to let the “boys play”. This is weak because of the total obviousness of the fouls involved on the play
2. They didn’t want to determine the outcome of the game. This is weaker because they did more to determine the outcome by swallowing their whistles.
3. They were bias. This is possible, but also weak because it would mean the entire crew and league had a natural bias because they didn’t even confer on the fouls or call in for a discussion.
4. It was rigged. This is the most rational explanation given the amount of people who saw the obvious fouls and called nothing, no field conference, and no call in from the head offices for a discussion.
1. One of the many refs could have thrown a flag
2. The refs could have met on the field and discussed and thrown a late flag
3. The head offices could have called in and informed the crew of the missed call leading to a field conference and a late flag.
Instead, we had total silence. Silence from EVERY ref, no discussion, silence from the LEAGUE even with obvious video evidence. NO conferring AT ALL. That leads to the next point.
There is no question of the INTENTIONALITY of the blown no-call. That’s a done deal and a fact.
The question is WHY the refs were intentionally ignoring the PI/targeting. There are four reasons:
1. They wanted to let the “boys play”. This is weak because of the total obviousness of the fouls involved on the play
2. They didn’t want to determine the outcome of the game. This is weaker because they did more to determine the outcome by swallowing their whistles.
3. They were bias. This is possible, but also weak because it would mean the entire crew and league had a natural bias because they didn’t even confer on the fouls or call in for a discussion.
4. It was rigged. This is the most rational explanation given the amount of people who saw the obvious fouls and called nothing, no field conference, and no call in from the head offices for a discussion.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 8:59 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:43 am to UpToPar
It's certainly not a full on conspiracy, but you can't really expect anyone to believe that two allstar refs that had unobstructed views and were both right on top of the play both happened to miss one of the more blatant PIs. That just doesn't pass the smell test.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:46 am to theunknownknight
quote:
The question is WHY the refs were intentionally ignoring the PI/targeting. There are four reasons:
1. They wanted to let the “boys play”. This is weak because of the total obviousness of the fouls involved on the play
2. They didn’t want to determine the outcome of the game. This is weaker because they did more to determine the outcome by swallowing their whistles.
3. They were bias. This is possible, but also weak because it would mean the entire crew and league had a natural bias because they didn’t even confer on the fouls or call in for a discussion.
4. It was rigged. This is the most rational explanation given the amount of people who saw the obvious fouls and called nothing, no field conference, and no call in from the head offices for a discussion.
Ocam's razor suggests that the fourth reason is not the most likely. Again, if it was rigged, why wait until that moment to make a game changing call? Why not call the two blatant facemasks on the Saints earlier in the game? Why not call a phantom holding call on the saints earlier in the drive to prevent them from reaching FG range all together?
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:48 am to TallMan
It wasn't just that one play. It was several over the course of the entire game. That's why the Saints fans were going so ballistic by that point. It's just that the one play was so fricking obvious at a crucial point. It was literally the difference maker of a season. They even got together to talk it over right after it happened (I thought that a flag was coming out at that point for sure).
And then they admitted in record time that they blew it (after the final whistle). That alone tells me this was their intention. Because they're not going to openly admit a frick up so quick like that.
And then they admitted in record time that they blew it (after the final whistle). That alone tells me this was their intention. Because they're not going to openly admit a frick up so quick like that.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:49 am to UpToPar
quote:
Why not make sure things bounce their way during the season? Or did this idea just hit them during the 4th quarter?
Why do some people just like being the contrarian every chance they get? Do they suffer from delusions thinking they see everything so much clearer than everyone else, or do they truly believe that they are always the smartest of the group?
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 8:53 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:50 am to UpToPar
quote:
What does the NFL gain from having the Rams in the SB over the Saints?
Having a Super Bowl winning franchise, that's building a new stadium, in the second largest media market in America, which is a notoriously bad football city unless it's for a winner, doesn't seem like motive to you?
quote:
And again, if the refs had directives to make sure the Rams won, they had plenty of opportunities to change the game with a phantom hold here or there.
Like another posted noted, not calling holding on the Rams all day is pretty obvious. Jordan and the other ends were getting hooked around the neck quite often coming around the edge.
And as far as "phantom holds" go, how about in the 4th quarter whenever the Saints force the Rams to punt from near the endzone? Saints got the ball on the Rams 46, first play was a run for 4 yards by Ingram...BAM!...refs suddenly spot the Saints line holding after not throwing a flag on the Rams all day. Drive stalls and the Saints punt it back, which led to a Rams field goal to tie the game at 20.
(I will grant that it was probably a legit hold, but the fact that the Rams never got popped and it was not a very obvious hold/tackle by Armstead leads me to want to call "bullshite!" on it.)
EDIT TO ADD:
If the Saints score on the drive I mention above, after a big defensive stop, they are up by 6, at the very least, with under 10 minutes to play. There's your "before the last minute" call that affected the game.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 9:11 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:51 am to UpToPar
You don’t understand ozcam’s razor.
Given the amount of moving pieces and on field remedies and the complete obviousness of the call, the league had to intentionally back off knowing it would prevent the Saints 100% from going to the Super Bowl in that moment.
You had the players ON THE FIELD motioning and waiting on a flag. Rams coming to the sideline multiple times saying “I can’t believe this”
No way ALL these people were lock step in their motivations in ANY way unless it was predetermined at some point beforehand.
Given the amount of moving pieces and on field remedies and the complete obviousness of the call, the league had to intentionally back off knowing it would prevent the Saints 100% from going to the Super Bowl in that moment.
You had the players ON THE FIELD motioning and waiting on a flag. Rams coming to the sideline multiple times saying “I can’t believe this”
No way ALL these people were lock step in their motivations in ANY way unless it was predetermined at some point beforehand.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 8:55 am
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:51 am to UpToPar
quote:
Ocam's razor suggests that the fourth reason is not the most likely.
It also suggests that two allstar refs both missing an super easy call is not the most likely.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:53 am to LNCHBOX
Collusion is the better word
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:54 am to UpToPar
Also please address why the league/refs didn’t even confer on the field when you have video evidence of one of the refs looking at the Jumbotron and, obviously, the evidence right in the face of the league/world.
This wasn’t JUST an on field mistake. It was a purposeful and willful action to ignore it after the play.
This wasn’t JUST an on field mistake. It was a purposeful and willful action to ignore it after the play.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 9:39 am
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