Started By
Message
locked post

Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:05 am
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62000 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:05 am
Forbes


quote:

As the American left embraces a platform that continues to look more and more like a socialist’s dream, it is common for those on the right to counter with the example of Venezuela as the nightmare of socialism in reality. A common response from the left is that socialism (or democratic socialism) works just fine in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist. The myth of Nordic socialism is partially created by a confusion between socialism, meaning government exerting control or ownership of businesses, and the welfare state in the form of government-provided social safety net programs. However, the left’s embrace of socialism is not merely a case of redefining a word. Simply look at the long-running affinity of leftists with socialist dictators in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela for proof many on the left long for real socialism. To the extent that the left wants to point to an example of successful socialism, not just generous welfare states, the Nordic countries are actually a poor case to cite. Regardless of the perception, in reality the Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs.



quote:

First, it is worth noting that the Nordic counties were economic successes before they built their welfare states. Those productive economies, generating good incomes for their workers, allowed the governments to raise the tax revenue needed to pay for the social benefits. It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs. Second, as evidence of the lack of government interference in business affairs, there is the fact that none of these countries have minimum wage laws. Unions are reasonably powerful in many industries and negotiate contracts, but the government does nothing to ensure any particular outcome from those negotiations. Workers are paid what they are worth, not based on government’s perception of what is fair.



quote:

A Scandinavian economist once said to Milton Friedman, ‘In Scandinavia, we have no poverty’. Milton Friedman replied, ‘That’s interesting, because in America, among Scandinavians, we have no poverty, either’ (quoted by Kotkin, 2009).

A good article to use when your liberal friends try to tell you that Scandinavian countries are Socialist.
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 6:14 am
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
52839 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:13 am to
Lol and there’s another’s little tidbit about how the Nordic countries aren’t like Venezuela etc.
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
34886 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:20 am to
Also helps when you don’t have to pay much for your own defense. Most Scandinavian countries pay about 1.0% of gdp towards military knowing full well America will defend them in case of invasion. If we didn’t have their back they’d either have to spend less on social programs or get taken over.
Many great swedes have come to the US to make their fortune. I’d imagine it’s tough to keep great talent with 70% taxes. We’ll take those immigrants all day/everyday.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62000 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:26 am to
quote:

Also helps when you don’t have to pay much for your own defense. Most Scandinavian countries pay about 1.0% of gdp towards military knowing full well America will defend them in case of invasion. If we didn’t have their back they’d either have to spend less on social programs or get taken over.



Great point
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
7691 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:27 am to
Plus, the Nordic countries still have private ownership of businesses and operate under a market economy.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62000 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:36 am to
quote:

Plus, the Nordic countries still have private ownership of businesses and operate under a market economy.


As is stated in the article.
Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23043 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:58 am to
I’m curious what % of people in those countries don’t “pull their weight”? If everyone is actually trying and carrying their weight (even if it is a low paying job that is necessary for society to work) then I can see it working. I could see people understand higher taxes knowing that the folks on the lower end of the economic spectrum are busting arse as well.

Just seems that model wouldn’t work here bc a large number of people would want all the benefits but not actually do the work.

ETA: Also what is their immigration policy? Do they just let anyone in? Birthright citizenship?
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 7:02 am
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 6:59 am to
quote:

I’m curious what % of people in those countries don’t “pull their weight”?


What's the percentage of 3rd world Immigrants?
Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23043 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 7:01 am to
quote:

quote: I’m curious what % of people in those countries don’t “pull their weight”? What's the percentage of 3rd world I


Also great point that I will add above.
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 7:03 am
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62000 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 7:04 am to
quote:

Just seems that model wouldn’t work here bc a large number of people would want all the benefits but not actually do the work.


It wouldn't work here for a number of reasons. One of them, is the reason you listed.
Posted by TheHarahanian
Actually not Harahan as of 6/2023
Member since May 2017
22989 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 7:40 am to
I believe leftists here want a "generous welfare state" aka rampant Marxism, but are calling that socialism.

It's thievery under any name.

Edit: Actually, it's thievery in the way they want to implement it, because they want the government to force all of us to give up earnings. Taxation is not charity, but if you want to treat it like it is, nobody is stopping you. Start giving more than you have to, voluntarily, to show what a good Marxist you are.
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 7:56 am
Posted by Yak
DuPage County
Member since May 2014
4672 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 7:50 am to
Even if they were, most of those Scandinavian countries are homogeneous and a fraction of our population.

It won't work here
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62000 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 7:51 am to
quote:

Even if they were, most of those Scandinavian countries are homogeneous and a fraction of our population.


Yep. It's apples and oranges.
It would be less frightening if the left only wanted big government, but they also want a police state.
This post was edited on 7/30/18 at 7:53 am
Posted by sleepytime
Member since Feb 2014
3852 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 8:06 am to
Their high tax/ social safety net model isn’t sustainable if a lot of people over use or abuse the system, whether that’s from immigration, an economic downturn or their population just becomes lazier/less productive.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
33931 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 8:25 am to
They also have tiny defense budgets, so that is a huge expense they don't have to worry about.

The know they can count on Uncle Sam.
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 8:42 am to
There’s also 1 more interesting tidbit about Nordic countries...they’re full of people who - for the most part - share a common goal and pull in the same direction. Is this becaue they’re mostly white? Judge for yourself.
Posted by rintintin
Life is Life
Member since Nov 2008
16964 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 9:15 am to
quote:

First, it is worth noting that the Nordic counties were economic successes before they built their welfare states. Those productive economies, generating good incomes for their workers, allowed the governments to raise the tax revenue needed to pay for the social benefits. It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs.


This is really all that needs to be said.

Gov't never creates wealth, except for Gov't officials and their cronies.

There is not one example out there that I know of where a country built great wealth and prosperity for it's citizens starting with Socialist policies.
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 9:24 am to
quote:

To the extent that the left wants to point to an example of successful socialism, not just generous welfare states, the Nordic countries are actually a poor case to cite. Regardless of the perception, in reality the Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs


This is colloquially known as socialism and is what the left wants
Posted by TexasTiger89
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2005
26393 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Also what is their immigration policy? Do they just let anyone in? Birthright citizenship?


I traveled to Norway quite regularly in the early 2000's. One thing you notice is all workers are Norwegian. I am talking wait staff, hotel staff (all including maids), garbage men/women, etc. I would assume their policy is very strict.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
73957 posts
Posted on 7/30/18 at 9:26 am to
so·cial·ism
'soSH??liz?m/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

first pageprev pagePage 1 of 6Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram